What is up with California Horse Racing

2MinsToPost · #1 12-10-2006, 04:19 PM

I have noticed the last couple of weeks that their is always some MSW or 2 Year Old race thrown in the card at Hollywood that plays havoc with the big spenders; i.e. Pick 4 and 6 players. The race below starts the TVG Pick 4 this evening at Hollywood and has 13 entered.

7th (3:33)

6 1/2 Furlongs (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Maiden Special Weight | Purse: $40,000

I am not saying they should make it fair, but what the hell is wrong with throwing those races in early and then get on with the card? Are the people in charge in California doing this on purpose?

SCUDSBROTHER · #2 12-10-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

I have noticed the last couple of weeks that their is always some MSW or 2 Year Old race thrown in the card at Hollywood that plays havoc with the big spenders; i.e. Pick 4 and 6 players. The race below starts the TVG Pick 4 this evening at Hollywood and has 13 entered.

7th (3:33)

6 1/2 Furlongs (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Maiden Special Weight | Purse: $40,000

I am not saying they should make it fair, but what the hell is wrong with throwing those races in early and then get on with the card? Are the people in charge in California doing this on purpose?

Yes.They are doing it on purpose.

2MinsToPost · #3 12-10-2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yes.They are doing it on purpose.

I know you live out that way Scuds, why?

SCUDSBROTHER · #4 12-10-2006, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

I know you live out that way Scuds, why?

They badly want to get the pick 6 to carry over.They do all they can to do that,but these people put huge tickets in(like yesterday,)and take the whole pool(instead of it carrying.)It is all about the pick 6 out here.If they can get people to put a mil into the pool(that they may not have played,)it's a quick 300k cash take out.

docicu3 · #5 12-10-2006, 07:16 PM

I am not a very active member but on this subject I respectfully disagree.....In the 5th at "Polywood" the 2,5,6,7 provided about 15 thousand reasons why these 2 year old races have a place on the card and are really not all that much of a reach to hit.

Somewhere on this site one of the heavy hitters posted a remark about route races... "don't bet a two year old to run a distance that form has yet to prove they can run no matter how much early speed and improvement they show" Translation= Toss the 3 .....false favorite because of name trainer!!!!

The 2(2 entries both decent),5 and 6 fit this thought of horses who had run the dfistance.....the winner had some great workouts that computrak gave a rating that made the 7 a respectable possibility to hit the board.

Thus a 1 dollar superbox and 2 dollar tri box (2,5,6,7) paid almost 15 K .......I thank God for Steve Byk/Hooves and Oracle who's wisdom got me playing horses like this...I am happy to scan the tax documents I cashed at Delaware if the DT crowd wants to see the proof......Bless You all.....and please keep putting this stuff up here for lackeys like myself

docicu3

SCUDSBROTHER · #6 12-10-2006, 09:36 PM

They will never stop running the unraced 2 year old maiden races.These trainers n' friends pay for cars,vacations,whores etc. with the money they make from these 1st timers. It would be one thing if they let horses work to their ability,but most won't. Look at Dutrow in the 4th at Aqu. today.Nothing but breezing pedestrian works,and he n' friends get their 7-1.This is the sht that needs to be changed to clean the sport up.I have seen this sht for 25 years,and I am not saying he should work the horse fast to make somebody happy.I am saying these unraced horses don't belong in the p4,and p6.Nothing...nothing cheapens this sport as much as this does.I wish you never brought this up.Nothing can be done.Take your rape like everybody else.It is a trainers game.You're their btch,and that will never change.

docicu3 · #7 12-10-2006, 11:14 PM

So much for the sugar coated reply to the new guys post.............all I am saying is that like all quality horse racing, if you can decipher a method that works to bag these tri's and super's laying out small risk with high reward return successfully, you have achieved the goal......nothing more but certainly nothing less......

I have taken my lumps during the last year but try to look at each day at the window as at the very least a learning experience. When I get it right I have done very well.....I had a rationale for Hollywood Race 5 and it worked so I tried to share it with the guys who are responsible for teaching me a number of things .......I'll just leave it there......

SCUDSBROTHER · #8 12-10-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

So much for the sugar coated reply to the new guys post.............all I am saying is that like all quality horse racing, if you can decipher a method that works to bag these tri's and super's laying out small risk with high reward return successfully, you have achieved the goal......nothing more but certainly nothing less......

I have taken my lumps during the last year but try to look at each day at the window as at the very least a learning experience. When I get it right I have done very well.....I had a rationale for Hollywood Race 5 and it worked so I tried to share it with the guys who are responsible for teaching me a number of things .......I'll just leave it there......

Put selections up before the race(if you want us to take anything you say seriously.)Thanks.....

repent · #9 12-10-2006, 11:58 PM

its not really on point,
but I did not see a Native Diver thread.

that cushion crap is not fake dirt.
its fake turf.

If i was a trainer with a good west coast turf horse, Id make the Hollywood Gold Cup my summer target.

Repent

brianwspencer · #10 12-11-2006, 12:17 AM

regarding the native diver, when they go that fast on cushion at 1 1/8, the frontrunners will lose everytime. so the native diver was not out of line really. compare its fractions with the other races on the card. your frontrunners go that fast -- they will not win.

so whats everyone worrying about?

repent · #11 12-11-2006, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

regarding the native diver, when they go that fast on cushion at 1 1/8, the frontrunners will lose everytime. so the native diver was not out of line really. compare its fractions with the other races on the card. your frontrunners go that fast -- they will not win.

so whats everyone worrying about?

not always entirely true. at least I dont think it is.

I dont have the charts,
but I was watching last thursday and I saw the winner of both of the 2 turn main track races came from on or near the lead while setting similar fractions to today's Native Diver.
they were both 8.5f races I think as opposed to today's 9f distance, but it is possible to win a route race at Holypark while being on the lead with similar fractions to what we saw today.

Im not going to compare it to any other races on today's card because there were not any other main track route races.
if you did want to do that, the winner of the last race won a sprint race on the lead.

correct me if Im off on this one, but its not that much of an outside/closing bias.

Repent

SCUDSBROTHER · #12 12-11-2006, 12:51 AM

You can go fast and hang on,but you really do need to get a lone lead to have a chance to do it.Really pay the price if you go side by side up front on this track.It has been that way all meet.Getting totally clear is very important there.At Anita,the leaders can hang on even if they duel.That's the fake track.

repent · #13 12-11-2006, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Watch the race. the two speed horses opened up a big lead, and dueled each other into defeat. Closers ate 'em up. That'll happen on any surface.

I did watch the race dude.
and no,
dueling early is not a death sentance on every surface at every track.
doesnt help, but you can win on that surface by going fast early.

my original point is that a turf horse won the most important main track route race of the Fall Hollywood meet.

Repent

repent · #14 12-11-2006, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You see a lot of horses dueling through fast fractions, while 10 plus lengths ahead of the next horse and either one around at the finish, because I don't. Lone leaders opening up a lead like that sometimes get brave, but when horses are battling, no way. And don't act like this was some stellar field of main track horses.

ok,
see now you are talking about something else entirely.

I responded to that post by brianspencer about not being able to win on cushion track after going that fast early.
I pointed out that I thought you could and I thought I had seen it done on Thursday.

the dueling fractions by flamethrowin and ball 4 certainly helped set it up for the closers.
i never said it did not.

Repent

philcski · #15 12-11-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

They will never stop running the unraced 2 year old maiden races.These trainers n' friends pay for cars,vacations,whores etc. with the money they make from these 1st timers. It would be one thing if they let horses work to their ability,but most won't. Look at Dutrow in the 4th at Aqu. today.Nothing but breezing pedestrian works,and he n' friends get their 7-1.This is the sht that needs to be changed to clean the sport up.I have seen this sht for 25 years,and I am not saying he should work the horse fast to make somebody happy.I am saying these unraced horses don't belong in the p4,and p6.Nothing...nothing cheapens this sport as much as this does.I wish you never brought this up.Nothing can be done.Take your rape like everybody else.It is a trainers game.You're their btch,and that will never change.

That was rough, i agree. i had gotten knocked out of the p4 by the race before and had used her, but if i was playing the p6 i probably would not have used the 10 on works alone as you're right they were pedestrian, at best, and im likely not going 5-6 deep in the p6. At least in NY they put the unraced 2YO maidens FIRST in the p6 instead of having them buried so you can at least see the tote action...

Steve Crist has campaigned against California's policy of putting the maiden races last because of this and I for one really appreciate his efforts.

Scav · #16 12-11-2006, 09:13 AM

The Daily Racing Form reported this week that at the University of Arizona Symposium on Racing and Gaming, Panza had the candor to say, "My job is to get carryovers. I don't want to make it easy for you. I try to make it as competitive as possible."

I'd be disappointed if Panza weren't trying to card full fields of difficult races.

It seems that gamblers have complained that Panza puts inscrutable maiden races, including scads of unraced 2-year-olds, as the last leg of the Pick 6. If Panza made the maiden race the first leg, then players could see which of the horses were taking betting action.