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#1
10-26-2009, 01:39 PM
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Cali tracks get free hand to tinker with takeout..
This story emerged late Friday... Very problematic...
California law allows takeout increase By Matt Hegarty http://www.drf.com/news/article/108410.html California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill on Friday that would allow racetracks in the state to seek approval to raise takeout rates for any bet to up to 25 percent of the handle, according to state records. The bill opens up the process by which takeout rates are set in California, gives racetracks the opportunity to dramatically increase existing takeout rates, and allows the racing industry to petition to redistribute portions of the takeout, according to officials. Under the legislation, any changes to the takeout rates or the way the takeout is distributed must be approved by the racetrack, the state's horsemen's association, and the California Horse Racing Board.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984. 
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#3
10-26-2009, 01:43 PM
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Extremely problematic to people who still play those circuits and aren't getting rebates.
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#4
10-26-2009, 01:46 PM
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__________________
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"...Voltaire
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#5
10-26-2009, 01:51 PM
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The CHRB would have to approve any actual increases that a track/fair/association may want... And while their track record is awful, you would sure hope that they would be made to understand the lunacy of wholesale takeout increases right now on their already beleaguered business.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#6
10-26-2009, 02:05 PM
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I would vote with my wagering dollars. Higher takeout, less play.
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#7
10-26-2009, 02:07 PM
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Now here's an idea.....handle is down so let's up takeout to offset the losses. The only people hurt are those damn gamblers. The wrong measure at the wrong time with impact felt by the wrong people....their customers.
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#8
10-26-2009, 02:08 PM
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Exactly doc, but look at states raising taxes and fees at the same time. Gross.
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#9
10-26-2009, 02:49 PM
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I'd prefer that this conversation not to turn into a pitchfork march on the 'ol Frankenstein place, (as is going on elsewhere..
 )...But obviously, the concern here is that the CHRB, which has historically shown itself to largely be a tool of track management, simply is powerless to do the right thing. If the tracks are smart about it and sensitive to the realities, there probably is room to achieve whatever goals they are hoping for with this, while potentially GROWING business. That is of course wishful thinking, but I'm a wishful thinking kind of guy..
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#10
10-28-2009, 12:26 AM
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We have our local BART train system. When ridership is down, the BART officials raise fees to offset the losses. In fairness to California officials, voters normally seem to tax ourselves when given the chance. I can only think of one local measure raising our local taxes that didn't pass at the polls. And it took this year's economy to barely vote down a local school tax this past spring. Sales tax here is 9.75%. I forget all the earmarks where it now goes to.
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#11
10-26-2009, 01:45 PM
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I am sure you were re-assured just as I was when the track official said they were not looking to raise takeout, track officials care about the very people who provide the money that makes the industry survive and would be completely honest with us!
__________________
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"...Voltaire
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#12
10-26-2009, 02:53 PM
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Makes perfect sense to me.. Might as well finish what the Cal Racing Board started.. Belmont, Philly Park, and Woodbine are looking for good Owners, Trainers, and Horses.. All are welcomed..Has Santa Anita announce a closing date or are the mules, quarters and paints lookin to fill the void?
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#13
10-27-2009, 08:32 AM
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#14
10-27-2009, 09:07 AM
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Again, it may benefit everyone to read some of the details involved in this. I know it's more fun to call track management, state governments and racing regulatory bodies fools and morons, but let's all try to pretend they may be people looking to improve situations...
A few more tidbits about this bill and what it was intended to do from people I spoke with in California... This measure apparently was designed to assist the Fairs first and foremost. They were receiving support from the state via agricultural-related budgets, and that money is disappearing. Allegedly in the $30-40 million dollar range annually. By being able to ask CHRB for approval of various re-applications of revenue from takeout and maneuvering of some takeout rates, the fairs are hopeful they can 'find' that soon to be missing revenue. Otherwise, they may not survive. As for the DMR, GG, HOL and SA, they get the option of trying to change some currently state-mandated distribution of revenue towards things they need including capital improvements. The state has percentage directives that the bill makes easier to change. The sky is falling crowd may want to wait until something actually falls before putting on the tinfoil hats. California has some of the lowest takeout rates in the country as a reminder. There may be possible positives from this bill, as hard as it is for anyone to conceive of that.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984. Last edited by Kasept : 10-28-2009 at 04:53 AM.
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#15
10-27-2009, 09:10 AM
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Oh I agree Steve. I'm simply saying if they do raise takeout, it is a negative. I'll wait and see. But I don't play certain places based on the take.
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#16
10-27-2009, 09:21 AM
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But what if they were to drop WPS takeout to 14% from 15.43%; drop 2/3/4 horse exotics to 18% from 20.18%; BUT raise P3/P4/P6 to 24% from 20.18%? That would be felt less by players on the multi race side but still raise revenue and perhaps also raise churn on the reduced takeout wagers? Is that a viable approach to test the waters on reduced takeout? New York and Illinois take 25% on P3-P4... I don't hear any screaming... I also don't hear a peep of praise for California having been kept at 20% all this time on those wagers... The bill is designed to provide flexibility. The basics of the existing takeout system in CA isn't immediately affected. Is there potential for everyone involved to do the wrong thing? Yes.. Does it have to be assumed? No..
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#17
10-27-2009, 09:34 AM
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2. I know your using a hypathetical, but do you honestly believe they would lower takeout and raise others to offset that? 3. You dont think serious players in NY are upset with the 25% take? I certainly have always heard loud protest when New York raises the take out, I am surprised you don't recall those discussions. 4. Yea it is more flexibility, someone that is not comnforting to me, frankly because the State of California, the track owners, and the CHRB in the majority of cases give me little reason to think it has a positive outcome. I guess I would compare it to the current discussions about using the "nuclear option" in the US Senate to bypass normal procedure, until it happens no ne should be concerned the loopholes are in place that it could happen? Sorry, if there is a problem I think its best to voice your concerns before you have to take it in the shorts.
__________________
"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"...Voltaire
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#18
10-28-2009, 05:09 AM
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1. While I don't know the players in CA as well as I know them in the East, I believe that there are many in track management that given the right opportunity will attempt to do the right thing. 2. I do think that a scenario exists (Hollywood Park) where a takeout reduction experiment can be attempted. And honestly, California rates are lower than almost anywhere in the country. Figure out where the revenue model is now first of all. Then, why not raise the take on P6 to 22-23% (from 20%) and drop it on P3-P4 to maybe 12% (from 20%) as a serious extended promotion to see what it does to handle. HANA and the takeout reduction crowd says it will drive handle up... Let's use this opportunity to prove it to the rest of the industry. 3. The NY thing was frustrating because Barry Schwartz was lowering takeout at NYRA tracks and the state screwed it up for everyone. I do not personally find the takeout onerous in NY. 4. Again, the bill was supposedly put together to benefit the fairs. I'll get Harper, Liebau and Charles on record as to DMR, HOL and SA's intentions, and let's see if we can motivate them to do something pro-active. All the concerns are logical as the predictable outcome here certainly remains obvious, but as I am doing in concert with the Satish Sanan conversations weekly on ATR, I am eager to promote upbeat and positive influence on these kinds of scenarios by attempting to get players and fans to see the plus side of industry situations. Because there is so much 'loss' and 'frustration' when playing the races, the overall mindset and approach of people around the game is negatively-tinged. We have to have a more positive outlook because not doing so only furthers the status quo and current malaise and ennui.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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#19
10-27-2009, 10:53 AM
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Steve i'm primarily exotics/multi race bettor and i love playing CA tracks b/c the takeout is lower, what you suggest here would put CA tracks in line with everyone else. Is there anyway you can get somebody from CHRB on ATR to discuss this? I believe it would help to here their side.
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#20
10-27-2009, 10:59 AM
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CHRB less of a concern really. They rubber stamp whatever the track managements tell them too.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. ~ George Orwell, 1984.
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