Past the Point to Woodward

NTamm1215 · #1 08-30-2009, 05:42 PM

Is it crazy to think this horse can beat Rachel Alexandra?

He absolutely loves Saratoga, has been working great, and comes off a sharp win earlier in the meet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=4431383

NT

justindew · #2 08-30-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Is it crazy to think this horse can beat Rachel Alexandra?

He absolutely loves Saratoga, has been working great, and comes off a sharp win earlier in the meet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=4431383

NT

The things about him is that his top two-turn dirt efforts have come when he's on or very near the pace. I guess that could work to his advantage against Rachel, but if she loses I see it being after she loses a pace battle that cooks her and whomever runs with her.

Sightseek · #3 08-30-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

The things about him is that his top two-turn dirt efforts have come when he's on or very near the pace. I guess that could work to his advantage against Rachel, but if she loses I see it being after she loses a pace battle that cooks her and whomever runs with her.

One of the things I absolutely love about Rachel is that you can pressure her early, but she is of good enough mind that she can be rated.

CSC · #4 08-30-2009, 06:09 PM

Unless she isn't herself this day, I don't believe he will be a problem for her. Totally different class of horse.

Edit-This would seem to be a fishing expedition by Sheik Mohammed, maybe he wants to gauge his chances later on. Definitely not the best he can send or will send.

Gander · #5 08-30-2009, 06:13 PM

The thing about this race is her 2 biggest rivals will be horses who like to be on or very close to the lead- Cool Coal Man and Pass the Point. Hasnt Zito played upset before? Hmmm. Problem is his horses rarely pair up 2 top perfromances back to back, unless they are given long layoffs like Birdstone was. Check out how badly Coal Play ran last week off that huge top. Cool Coal Man has a history of not being able to duplicate races too.

Great race and weekend shaping up. Hope the weather cooperates this time.

RockHardTen1985 · #6 08-30-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

The thing about this race is her 2 biggest rivals will be horses who like to be on or very close to the lead- Cool Coal Man and Pass the Point. Hasnt Zito played upset before? Hmmm. Problem is his horses rarely pair up 2 top perfromances back to back, unless they are given long layoffs like Birdstone was. Check out how badly Coal Play ran last week off that huge top. Cool Coal Man has a history of not being able to duplicate races too.

Great race and weekend shaping up. Hope the weather cooperates this time.

PTP can not be considered her biggest rival. Its a Bird was being called the best handicap horse in america before his last. Andy said it a number of times on the NYRA brodcast. He cuts back and Martys horse just freaked today. He will def. be lower odds then PTP IMO.

Danzig · #7 08-30-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

The things about him is that his top two-turn dirt efforts have come when he's on or very near the pace. I guess that could work to his advantage against Rachel, but if she loses I see it being after she loses a pace battle that cooks her and whomever runs with her.

several times now i've seen where people think she'll get 'cooked' up front-but she is far from an unrestrainable front-runner. where is this coming from? she's a tractable horse, not a one-dimensional speedster.

Gander · #8 08-30-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

several times now i've seen where people think she'll get 'cooked' up front-but she is far from an unrestrainable front-runner. where is this coming from? she's a tractable horse, not a one-dimensional speedster.

I think shes a much better animal just off the pace. At least from a visual standpoint, her greatest triumphs have come when not allowed the lead.

Danzig · #9 08-30-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I think shes a much better animal just off the pace. At least from a visual standpoint, her greatest triumphs have come when not allowed the lead.

i think she can run from anywhere-but i think her greatest triumph may be the preakness, where she took heat from beginning to end. but really, has she had a bad run all year?

CSC · #10 08-30-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I think shes a much better animal just off the pace. At least from a visual standpoint, her greatest triumphs have come when not allowed the lead.

Not disagreeing however there is a need by some, perhaps the minority for her to prove just how good or great is the word I am searching for in a field worthy enough where there are no questions that she is one of the best horses of our time, she's already proved she is a great filly. That has been superceded by 'Horse' for me. The Mother Goose, the Oaks, The Haskell are all nice races but really didn't require any challenge for a horse of her caliber, I suspect the Woodward will be much of the same. We need to see her in a top notch quality field to see just how great she is, see how she handles adversity...ect..

Danzig · #11 08-30-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Not disagreeing however there is a need by some, perhaps the minority for her to prove just how good or great is the word I am searching for in a field worthy enough where there are no questions that she is one of the best horses of our time, she's already proved she is a great filly. That has been superceded by 'Horse' for me. The Mother Goose, the Oaks, The Haskell are all nice races but really didn't require any challenge for a horse of her caliber, I suspect the Woodward will be much of the same. We need to see her in a top notch quality field to see just how great she is, see how she handles adversity...ect..

perhaps none seemed a challenge because she's just that good? a good horse will always make the others look like donkeys in comparison.

Gander · #12 08-30-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSC

Not disagreeing however there is a need by some, perhaps the minority for her to prove just how good or great is the word I am searching for in a field worthy enough where there are no questions that she is one of the best horses of our time, she's already proved she is a great filly. That has been superceded by 'Horse' for me. The Mother Goose, the Oaks, The Haskell are all nice races but really didn't require any challenge for a horse of her caliber, I suspect the Woodward will be much of the same. We need to see her in a top notch quality field to see just how great she is, see how she handles adversity...ect..

The Travers wouldnt have proven much either. It was a slightly better field than the Haskell but not by a whole lot. Theres no reason to think she wouldnt have galloped yesterday too. I am glad she waited for the Woodward. At the very least its a new kind of win for her (against older males).

Sightseek · #13 08-30-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

I think shes a much better animal just off the pace. At least from a visual standpoint, her greatest triumphs have come when not allowed the lead.

I'd agree with this - the Haskell gave me chills the way she put them away.

Danzig · #14 08-30-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'd agree with this - the Haskell gave me chills the way she put them away.

an emphatic win for sure. she was very impressive.

Gander · #15 08-30-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'd agree with this - the Haskell gave me chills the way she put them away.

I know she didnt beat much, but for me her Oaks was her best day. That gave me chills.

Revidere · #16 08-31-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I'd agree with this - the Haskell gave me chills the way she put them away.

Although I could have done without Borel hitting her in the stretch 10 times times.....Inexcusable.

justindew · #17 08-30-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

several times now i've seen where people think she'll get 'cooked' up front-but she is far from an unrestrainable front-runner. where is this coming from? she's a tractable horse, not a one-dimensional speedster.

Reread what I said. I don't think she's one-dimensional at all. But the only way I can see her losing to horses of inferior quality is if she gets locked in a speed duel. And if that happens in the Woodward, I don't see Past The Point being the beneficiary.

Danzig · #18 08-30-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

Reread what I said. I don't think she's one-dimensional at all. But the only way I can see her losing to horses of inferior quality is if she gets locked in a speed duel. And if that happens in the Woodward, I don't see Past The Point being the beneficiary.

what would possibly compel borel to get her in a speed duel?

justindew · #19 08-30-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

what would possibly compel borel to get her in a speed duel?

Maybe the same thing that compelled him to move a furlong too soon in the Belmont with Mine That Bird.

justindew · #20 08-30-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

what would possibly compel borel to get her in a speed duel?

Do you think any jockey says to himself before a race "Ya know, today feels like a good day to get my horse into a speed duel"?