Silverbulletday VS Rachel Alexandra through Aug of 3yo season

[The Indomitable DrugS]

2-year-old races:

Silverbulletday: 6-for-7 Top Beyer: 104

RA: 3-for-6 Top Beyer: 99


3-year-old races:

Silverbulletday: 7-for-8 Top Beyer: 115 Avg Beyer 104.75

RA: 7-for-7 Top Beyer: 116 Avg Beyer: 106.71



Sprint Races:

Silverbulletday: 3-for-4 Top Beyer 87

RA: 2-for-4 Top Beyer 85


Route Races:

Silverbulletday: 10-for-11 Top Beyer: 115 Avg Beyer: 103.64

RA: 8-for-9 Top Beyer: 116 Avg Beyer: 103.33


Overall Record:

Silverbulletday: 13-for-15 (12 Graded Stakes wins. 4 Grade 1 wins)

RA: 10-for-13 (7 Graded Stakes wins. 4 Grade 1 wins)


Almost identical body of work in every way to this point.

Silverbulletday felt the strain of that tough campaign and all the Baffert training .. she won the Grade 1 Gazelle easily in Sept giving away a bunch of weight .. but her figures were tailing off just slightly and the older mares she'd run into were a beastly fast group at the time.

Rachel Alexandra doesn't have to worry about any beastly fast group of older horses .. and her form is surging forward somewhat and doesn't seem likely to tail off.


Still ... Rachel Alexandra's accomplishments are very comparable with SBD's to this stage of their careers.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Still ... Rachel Alexandra's accomplishments are very comparable with SBD's to this stage of their careers.

Accomplishments or Beyer figures?

Sure, their graded stakes tallies may be similar and their Beyers may be similar but based on accomplishments they are vastly different in my opinion.

NT

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Accomplishments or Beyer figures?

Sure, their graded stakes tallies may be similar and their Beyers may be similar but based on accomplishments they are vastly different in my opinion.

NT

Well put. Against who matters. As does fractions faced.

[tector]

I think SBD and the second best 3YO filly that year avoided each other--Excellent Meeting, both trained by Baffert. They did go head to head in the BC as 2YOs, however.

Did SBD ever race against colts? I don't think so. Nor do I recall her winning a race against older fillies (but my memory could be suspect). But she danced every dance against fillies of her generation.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by tector

I think SBD and the second best 3YO filly that year avoided each other--Excellent Meeting, both trained by Baffert. They did go head to head in the BC as 2YOs, however.

Did SBD ever race against colts? I don't think so. Nor do I recall her winning a race against older fillies (but my memory could be suspect). But she danced every dance against fillies of her generation.

Silver Bullet Day did race against the boys in the Belmont, 4th I think.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by tector

Did SBD ever race against colts? I don't think so.

Yes - in fact - she is the single reason why Charismatic didn't win the triple crown.

As he dueled head to head with her the whole way and pinned her inside - and it helped that Stephen Got Even made a premature middle move in the Belmont.

Silverbulletday's Belmont was as good an effort as RA's Preakness ... and RA ran five lengths better than anyone else in her Preakness win.

[tector]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes - in fact - she is the single reason why Charismatic didn't win the triple crown.

As he dueled head to head with her the whole way and pinned her inside - and it helped that Stephen Got Even made a premature middle move in the Belmont.

Silverbulletday's Belmont was as good an effort as RA's Preakness ... and RA ran five lengths better than anyone else in her Preakness win.

I forgot that Belmont. I remember Excellent Meeting in the prior two TC races but lost that one, thanks.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Accomplishments or Beyer figures?

Sure, their graded stakes tallies may be similar and their Beyers may be similar but based on accomplishments they are vastly different in my opinion.

NT

Why - you think Silverbulletday faced better fillies and better colts? .. I'd obviously agree that she did.

However, you can't take away from the quality of RA's performances.

[King Glorious]

Tough call. I'd lean towards Rachel but not by a whole lot.

On a side note, when thinking of Rachel's Preakness effort vs. SBD's Belmont effort, it makes me think of Winning Colors' Preakness. That was one of the best performances I've ever seen from a filly. When you consider the quality of the horse (Forty Niner) that tried to take her out of her game and how she put him away and still held for third, it was very good.

[smuthg]

I actually was just thinking if you could say that the trio of Rachel, Zenyatta and Goldikova are the best group of fillies/mares that have ever been racing at the same time (I guess you could argue that the Zarkarva, Zenyatta and Goldikova trio is a push depending on how you weigh the Zarkarva v. Rachel debate) but have we ever seen the female division this loaded at the top?

Don't you have to go back to Miesque, Winning Colors and Personal Ensign to even find anything close?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by smuthg

I actually was just thinking if you could say that the trio of Rachel, Zenyatta and Goldikova are the best group of fillies/mares that have ever been racing at the same time (I guess you could argue that the Zarkarva, Zenyatta and Goldikova trio is a push depending on how you weigh the Zarkarva v. Rachel debate) but have we ever seen the female division this loaded at the top?

Don't you have to go back to Miesque, Winning Colors and Personal Ensign to even find anything close?

The crop of fillies that had Lakeway, Inside Information, Heavenly Prize, Sardula, and even Phone Chatter (who was never the same after the injuries she incurred during her BC Juvie filly win) was as good a group as I've ever seen.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Why - you think Silverbulletday faced better fillies and better colts? .. I'd obviously agree that she did.

However, you can't take away from the quality of RA's performances.

I didn't realize Dreams Gallore was that good. Or the Happy Hopper, Marley Vale and the rest of the horses Silverbulletday beat.

You may not think much of who Rachel Alexandra has beaten this year, but her two wins against males are both better than any of Silverbulletday's wins up to August 1, 1999. The idea that Rachel's Preakness is on par with Silverbulletday's Belmont seems silly to me.

Of course it also remains to be seen if Rachel will suffer the same abrupt decline SBD did when she became Roza Robata and Lu Ravi's whipping girl.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I didn't realize Dreams Gallore was that good. Or the Happy Hopper, Marley Vale and the rest of the horses Silverbulletday beat.

Those fillies are light years better than the fillies RA has faced ... and they aren't even among the three or four best SBD faced. Kind of amusing you left out Excellent Meeting and Three Ring.

Who are the ok fillies RA has faced? Besides Sara Louise anyway.


By the way, Excellent Meeting and Three Ring both were as good or better than Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, or Musket Man.

Horses like Charistmatic, Stephen Got Even, Lemond Drop Kid, and Menifee were all light years better than any male RA has ever faced.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Horses like Charistmatic, Stephen Got Even, Lemond Drop Kid, and Menifee were all light years better than any male RA has ever faced.

I should probably correct that.

Munnings has sprint races that fit with those horses.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Those fillies are light years better than the fillies RA has faced ... and they aren't even among the three or four best SBD faced. Kind of amusing you left out Excellent Meeting and Three Ring.

Who are the ok fillies RA has faced? Besides Sara Louise anyway.


By the way, Excellent Meeting and Three Ring both were as good or better than Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, or Musket Man.

Horses like Charistmatic, Stephen Got Even, Lemond Drop Kid, and Menifee were all light years better than any male RA has ever faced.

I left out Excellent Meeting and Three Ring because she didn't face them as a 3YO. I'm not denying that SBD's accomplishments as a 2YO were far superior to Rachel's but I think Rachel's 3YO accomplishments vs. SBD's 3YO accomplishments give her the edge overall.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Silly to me, too.

You don't remember Silverbulletday's Belmont?

She basically dueled head-to-head with Charismatic (a sharp horse off of 3 straight wins) through a vicious 1:36 2/5th mile . while pinned down inside.

Stephen Got Even - a horse who ran a 120 Beyer and is probably best known for siring champion 2yo Stevie Wonderboy and ML Derby favorite I Want Revenge - he made a middle move to ensure both SBD and Charismatic could take no breather.

After 10 furlongs, Silverbulletday was still down inside fighting for the lead in a time equal to about a 110 Beyer. She did falter late from the pressure at a distance beyond her best.

Menifee, who is no bum at all, was kept up close to the pace and was so out of gas that he finished 7.5 lengths behind SBD but still beat several lesser horses home.

In Menifee's very next start, he once again was kept close to the pace - and he won the Haskell over that years Breeders Cup Classic winner.

Only a moron can watch Silverbulletday's race in the Belmont and not see that it was VERY impressive.

She single handedly saved the sport from Lukas winning a triple crown with a former claimer ... and she ran out of her mind through pressure from good horses for just over 10fs before understandably quitting.

If you don't think her race was good ... you probably think Menifee is a mere allowance horse who should have been 60/1 in the Haskell.

[KirisClown]

Why did Silverbulletday scratch out of the Preakness?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Only a moron can watch Silverbulletday's race in the Belmont and not see that it was VERY impressive.

Attach the chart for this race, if you have it. I'd like to see what it looks like.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

2-year-old races:

Silverbulletday: 6-for-7 Top Beyer: 104

RA: 3-for-6 Top Beyer: 99

Lakeway at 2: 1 for 1 Beyer: 92 (109.26 debut)

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

3-year-old races:

Silverbulletday: 7-for-8 Top Beyer: 115 Avg Beyer 104.75

RA: 7-for-7 Top Beyer: 116 Avg Beyer: 106.71

Lakeway at 3: 5 for 6 Top Beyer: 117 Avg Beyer: 104.83

Her lone loss was a hard fought second to the hugely underrated Sardula in the Kentucky Oaks over a miserable track.

Her three year old debut was on Jan. 08 in a nw1x allowance. The splits were 22.67, 45.14, 109.16 and the final time was 121.34! Her BSF was a 103.

Compare that to Cardmania's race two races earlier on the card, which had splits of 22.12, 44.64, 110.86 and the final time was 121.23! His BSF was a 106. Keep in mind that it was Cardmania that had just won the Breeders Cup Sprint just two months prior.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Sprint Races:

Silverbulletday: 3-for-4 Top Beyer 87

RA: 2-for-4 Top Beyer 85

Lakeway 2 for 2 Top Beyer: 103

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Route Races:

Silverbulletday: 10-for-11 Top Beyer: 115 Avg Beyer: 103.64

RA: 8-for-9 Top Beyer: 116 Avg Beyer: 103.33

Lakeway: 4 for 5 Top Beyer 117 Avg Beyer: 105.2

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Overall Record:

Silverbulletday: 13-for-15 (12 Graded Stakes wins. 4 Grade 1 wins)

RA: 10-for-13 (7 Graded Stakes wins. 4 Grade 1 wins)

Lakeway: 6 for 7 (4 Graded Stakes wins. All 4 were Grade 1).

Lakeway had a far tougher crop than either of these other two and had the handicap of being trained by one of the all time butchers, Gary Jones. Her two last races before being sacrificed by Jones (she nearly died after running sick in the Alabama) were two races for the ages.

In the Mother Goose she set fractions of 23.14, 45.35, 108.65, 133.54 and the final time an amazing 146.58. In second, 4.5 back was the decent filly Cinnamon Sugar with future superstar filly Inside Information another six back in third.

Next, in the Hollywood Oaks, she was on or near the lead with fractions of 23.62, 46.99, 110.08, 134.28 with the final time in 146.93. That makes her last three fractions of 23.09, 24.20 and a final furlong in 12.65. In this race she avenged her lone defeat in the Kentucky Oaks by trouncing Sardula by 4, with like another 15 lengths back to third. The Beyer? 117.

I think we'd be all very hard pressed to find a three year old filly that could do what she did up to this point.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

She had big races for sure.