Clemens: BigFATLIar

No court of law yet.
Innocent until proven guilty.

But having dealt with people
who find it necessary to lie
when stuck in a bad situation;
And then presenting the evidence...

I am inclined to believe he is a big fat liar.

Why would his trainer implicate Andy
and Roger playing dodger, Andy comes
clean, but not Roger?

Why does he say his trainer did not inject
him and then say he did but it was B-12?


What the hell does his trainer gain by
implicating Roger? His trainer would have
a hell of a lot more to lose than he already
has if he did not come clean with everyone.

Is there anybody that believes this guy?

The only question left for me is if Roger
is as fat as his lies.

And now this just in. Both his trainer
and the dodger have been asked to
testify before congress.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/sp...hp&oref=slogin

The truth noose tightens.
Bet: Trainer accepts.
Roger... gonna have to take some
acting classes if he goes.(He needs Rafael's acting coach, not McQwire's.)

[hi_im_god]

innocent people falsely accused scream at the top of their lungs.

the guilty wait a long time and then issue carefully nuanced language in controlled environments.

if the trainer is lying he should be screaming that. he isn't.

i'm not sure what his publicists expect to accomplish with this nonsense outside another paycheck.

he's paying a lot of money to people so he can be pete rose until he decides that having 100% of people know he's a cheater and liar is better than the bill for making that only 98%.

[horseofcourse]

Roger Clemens never took performance enhancing drugs...ever!! Neither did Marion Jones either.

[Crown@club]

Originally Posted by pgardn

No court of law yet.
Innocent until proven guilty.

But having dealt with people
who find it necessary to lie
when stuck in a bad situation;
And then presenting the evidence...

I am inclined to believe he is a big fat liar.

Why would his trainer implicate Andy
and Roger playing dodger, Andy comes
clean, but not Roger?

Why does he say his trainer did not inject
him and then say he did but it was B-12?


What the hell does his trainer gain by
implicating Roger? His trainer would have
a hell of a lot more to lose than he already
has if he did not come clean with everyone.

Is there anybody that believes this guy?

The only question left for me is if Roger
is as fat as his lies.

And now this just in. Both his trainer
and the dodger have been asked to
testify before congress.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/05/sp...hp&oref=slogin

The truth noose tightens.
Bet: Trainer accepts.
Roger... gonna have to take some
acting classes if he goes.(He needs Rafael's acting coach, not McQwire's.)

Its all B-12 shots these days.
Tejada....Palmeiro.....

"Give me that so-called B-12 shot would you?" (wink) (wink)

[horseofcourse]

...sex...lies....and AUDIO TAPE!!

[King Glorious]

21 times in the phone conversations, the trainers asked Roger "what do you want me to do?" Roger told him he's having a press conference Monday. The trainer asked if Roger wanted him to fly out. Maybe it's me but I would have liked to hear just once, instead of Roger saying "I'm just going to tell the truth", to say "I want you to come out and be right there next to me and admit that you lied and I didn't do it." Just once. I was listening to the tape and waiting to hear Roger ask "WHY DID YOU LIE ON ME???" The guy was pleading with Roger to tell him what he wanted him to do and all Roger would say is "I just need SOMEBODY to tell the truth Mac." That's bullshit. Then to top it off, in Roger's news conference later, Clemens says that he'd be afraid for the trainers' safety if he came out to the conference because his family is very upset and he's very upset. So what? Is he saying that some harm would come to the guy while he was there to clear Clemens' name? That doesn't make sense. Not much of this makes any sense.

What do you want me to do?
Get your ass here and admit that you lied.

Sounds simple enough to say to me.

[alysheba4]

remember when he fired a sawed off bat at piazza??? said he thought it was the ball.........

[Nascar1966]

Clemens now is the same as Barry Bonds. They are pieces of crap and liars along with being a disgrace to baseball. Its a shame that people like McGuire get snubbed by the Hall of Fame. He admitted to using something that when he used it was legal. As far as I am concerned Baseball can go to HELL!!!!!

[King Glorious]

I find it interesting that people look at Pettitte and say that he's an honest guy and has all of this integrity. The guy is a liar just like the rest of them. When he was taking the stuff, wasn't he cheating? Oh wait, it was supposedly to help him recover. So then he umm, "comes clean" and admits his use. Only he didn't come clean. He admitted part of the truth. Now he admits that he actually used it more than when he said he did when he came clean. Yeah, really honest guy, full of integrity.

[MaTH716]

Listen, I am not one of those people who gets on top of a soapbox to hear themselves talk, but as far as this whole case goes. WHO CARES! Are you telling me that the government doesn't have better things that they can do with their time then to grill people involved with baseball on whether they have done steroids or not. It's baseball's problem and let them try to clean it up. What's next, hearings on if the Patriots really cheated in the super bowl.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Listen, I am not one of those people who gets on top of a soapbox to hear themselves talk, but as far as this whole case goes. WHO CARES! Are you telling me that the government doesn't have better things that they can do with their time then to grill people involved with baseball on whether they have done steroids or not. It's baseball's problem and let them try to clean it up. What's next, hearings on if the Patriots really cheated in the super bowl.

I'm with you. I don't care who used drugs. There is no point at all to this investigation. No matter who they find out used them, they can't do anything to them so what is the point? And the hearings on the Pats is beyond ridiculous. At least with steroids, it involves drugs that were illegal. This videotaping thing was a league rule, not a law. If the commissioner goes in there and says that the Pats videotaped every opponent's practice and secretly installed cameras and taped their private meetings too, what can congress do about that? Absolutely NOTHING. So why is this senator even involving himself? They must really have nothing better to do at all.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm with you. I don't care who used drugs. There is no point at all to this investigation. No matter who they find out used them, they can't do anything to them so what is the point? And the hearings on the Pats is beyond ridiculous. At least with steroids, it involves drugs that were illegal. This videotaping thing was a league rule, not a law. If the commissioner goes in there and says that the Pats videotaped every opponent's practice and secretly installed cameras and taped their private meetings too, what can congress do about that? Absolutely NOTHING. So why is this senator even involving himself? They must really have nothing better to do at all.

There was no point UNTIL NOW. Some of these idiots lied in sworn testimony. That is perjury. Roger has now made this a point. I am a famous baseball player, I can say what I want to whomever.
frickn idiot...

Once you start to weave a web of lies...
YOU DONT LIE WHEN UNDER SWORN
TESTIMONY. YOU CAN GO TO JAIL.

There is another small point. The federal
government has given these sports a bit
of an antitrust free ride. When commisioners
etc... dont come clean; some congressmen who do
not believe baseball and some other pro sports
should enjoy exemptions that even the great
Microsoft might not get away with... Stupid commisioners
and players should just cooperate.
Then it all goes away. Then they can go directly
to the dealers as the government was trying to do
in the first place. It is a federal law... dealing these drugs.


And one last point. This stupid steriod stuff has cost my
State money as High School athletes have started to
use this stuff. So the state is going to randomly test
athletes in ALL sports. It has trickled down. By stock
in testing companies.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pgardn

There was no point UNTIL NOW. Some of these idiots lied in sworn testimony. That is perjury. Roger has now made this a point. I am a famous baseball player, I can say what I want to whomever.
frickn idiot...

Once you start to weave a web of lies...
YOU DONT LIE WHEN UNDER SWORN
TESTIMONY. YOU CAN GO TO JAIL.

There is another small point. The federal
government has given these sports a bit
of an antitrust free ride. When commisioners
etc... dont come clean; some congressmen who do
not believe baseball and some other pro sports
should enjoy exemptions that even the great
Microsoft might not get away with... Stupid commisioners
and players should just cooperate.
Then it all goes away. Then they can go directly
to the dealers as the government was trying to do
in the first place. It is a federal law... dealing these drugs.


And one last point. This stupid steriod stuff has cost my
State money as High School athletes have started to
use this stuff. So the state is going to randomly test
athletes in ALL sports. It has trickled down. By stock
in testing companies.

All high school students that play sports must take/pass physicals. That is where they could and should be tested.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Listen, I am not one of those people who gets on top of a soapbox to hear themselves talk, but as far as this whole case goes. WHO CARES! Are you telling me that the government doesn't have better things that they can do with their time then to grill people involved with baseball on whether they have done steroids or not. It's baseball's problem and let them try to clean it up. What's next, hearings on if the Patriots really cheated in the super bowl.

I would say it's really important to do this.We have a huge problem with ethics in this society.The only thing that's valued is money and success(any way you can get it .) This is the reason people are so quick to dismiss the actions of people who cheated to beat people in their chosen profession.Do you like being cheated? Well anyone trying to compete(without taking these drugs) with these guys was cheated.Hank Aaron lost his record to somebody who cheated.Now,you're saying the Congress shouldn't investigate it.I would say if these guys were gunna get properly punished,then the Congress wouldn't have to even be involved.Look at all the Conservative guys yesterday in Congress trying to help out this cheater.That's pathetic.Trying to find a way to help out a Conservative cheater from TEXAS.Well,they can step in the same poo he is in.Go right ahead.The one thing I know is that, by their very nature ,lies breed like rabbits doing speed.It's just the way it is.It's easy to remember the truth.It's hard to keep telling a pack of lies the same way.You would think it would be easy.It isn't .What's easy is telling it the 1st time.This is why they keep asking people to tell the same lies again.They keep asking them something a lil different each time,and he then will have to tell one more lie.Think about it.He is to the point where his story is that Andy Petitte is remembering incorrectly about whether Rocket told him he did this stuff.O.K.? That's how pathetic Rodger's lies are.Do you really think Andy misunderstood,and it was only Clemens wife on the HGH? Really? You think Andy would interpret that conversation incorrectly? This is what happens though.He should of admitted it like the others. Truth is easily remembered.We are much better at remembering it than we are lies.It's a different kind of memory,and that's why they ask you to repeat stories.You tell them in a totally different way when it's fiction.It will be slower,and you will be much grumpier doing it(because the brain has to work harder to remember the details of simple fiction.) One is just more work than the other.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I would say it's really important to do this.We have a huge problem with ethics in this society.The only thing that's valued is money and success(any way you can get it .) This is the reason people are so quick to dismiss the actions of people who cheated to beat people in their chosen profession.Do you like being cheated? Well anyone trying to compete(without taking these drugs) with these guys was cheated.Hank Aaron lost his record to somebody who cheated.Now,you're saying the Congress shouldn't investigate it.I would say if these guys were gunna get properly punished,then the Congress wouldn't have to even be involved.Look at all the Conservative guys yesterday in Congress trying to help out this cheater.That's pathetic.Trying to find a way to help out a Conservative cheater from TEXAS.Well,they can step in the same poo he is in.Go right ahead.The one thing I know is that, by their very nature ,lies breed like rabbits doing speed.It's just the way it is.It's easy to remember the truth.It's hard to keep telling a pack of lies the same way.You would think it would be easy.It isn't .What's easy is telling it the 1st time.This is why they keep asking people to tell the same lies again.They keep asking them something a lil different each time,and he then will have to tell one more lie.Think about it.He is to the point where his story is that Andy Petitte is remembering incorrectly about whether Rocket told him he did this stuff.O.K.? That's how pathetic Rodger's lies are.Do you really think Andy misunderstood,and it was only Clemens wife on the HGH? Really? You think Andy would interpret that conversation incorrectly? This is what happens though.He should of admitted it like the others. Truth is easily remembered.We are much better at remembering it than we are lies.It's a different kind of memory,and that's why they ask you to repeat stories.You tell them in a totally different way when it's fiction.It will be slower,and you will be much grumpier doing it(because the brain has to work harder to remember the details of simple fiction.) One is just more work than the other.

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

Actually I think it is around 70% that believe Roger did as opposed to 30% that don't believe he did. The fact is if the guy lied it is perjury and if any future Congressional hearings are going to have any teeth they have to go after him for it.

There are plenty of other things they could be doing with their time but the majority of them are on issues so divided along party lines that nothing will actually be accomplished with the time spent on that. And even if they accomplish something Bush can just step in and veto it. At least in this they are making some progress. It's a big waste of time no doubt but not as big a waste of time as most of what they normally waste their time on.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

There isn't as much as you think(that they can do.) When you got Geedubbya ready to veto anything left of Attilla,then it's a pretty useless situation.They are pretty much treading water until this idiot is gone.I go back to the fact that they broke the law,and aren't being punished for it.So,you should be asking why they aren't being punished for it.If they were being properly punished,then they wouldn't be having hearings.This is a case of overlooking what the rich and powerful did wrong.You're angry it's ending up here,but it's ending up here because others won't punish them in the regular way.That hypocrisy may just end up costing Clemons a lot more than simply using steroids or HGH.He has perjured himself,and now is to the point of talking about "breaking his spirit." I mean he is willing to lie as much as it takes to protect his family from the stigma of him being a cheater.Rich n' powerful think they can do just about anything they want,but we have seen that perjury is not taken lightly.Hard to believe a lawyer didn't try to keep him from stepping into this,but I guess this is how stubborn he is.