Best Group 2 in the world?

[brockguy]

certainly a case could be made for the Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial at Leopardstown on tomorrow. So many top class horses have won this in the past 10 years..This looks between Motivator's bro Macauthor and Ballysax winner Mores Wells but a good run by Honoured Guest in the French Guineas could signal a good run by Archipenko who beat him by 6L at the end of last season.. I may be way off but I think that Admiralofthefleet is the best of O'Briens potential Derby horses but there should be huge improvement from Macauthor and I wouldnt be surprised to see him as the new Derby fav tomorrow evening..

[brockguy]

2000 Sinndar - top class 2 Derbys and an Arc
2001 Galileo - top class 2 Derbys and a King George
2002 High Chaparral - top class 2 Derbys, 2 Breeders Cups, an Irish Champion Stakes
2003 - Alamshar - top class Irish Derby, King George
2004 - Yeats - top class Cornation Cup, Ascot Gold Cup
2005 - Fracas - eh, not quite the same level as above
2006 - Dylan Thomas - top class Irish Derby, Irish Champion Stakes, Prix Ganay..


now to rate the above.. that could take some time..

[NoChanceToDance]

Usually a good race, but a rather non event this year. Four out of the five runners from Ballydoyle. They will stuff Mores Wells on the rails and give him nowhere to go while the fancied one gets a clear passage.

Unless Mores Wells wins tomorrow, this years derby winner WILL NOT come from the Derrinstown

[brockguy]

id rank them
High Chaparral (just so good on his day, had top class wins at 10-12f)
Sinndar (terribly underrated, was such a good racehorse, his Arc win was superb)
Galileo (brilliant on his day but career finished on a downer)
Alamshar (inflicted Dalakhani's only loss and was class in the King George)
Dylan Thomas (can obviously move up the list!)
Yeats (shy of top class over 12f but has made into a special stayer)
Fracas (he's ok!!)

[NoChanceToDance]

Hope Mores Wells can win today, but it will be tough for him against four runners that will help eachother out.

Fair play to Prendergast for running him, when many have been frightened off. He is the most likely Epsom Derby winner i have seen so far. It's not the end of the world if he gets beaten today, will just mean people will lay a bigger price for me to snap up!

[NoChanceToDance]

Well, i would be very surprised if any kind of Derby winner was in the Derrinstown today. Macarthur looks moderate and i still think he needs soft ground.

Mores Wells was really disappointing. He will improve with a step up in trip, but he didn't have the gears to go with them when they quicked today. Looks like my Derby bet is down the pan already.

Well, i really hope Mahler gets aimed at the race because he has impressed me the most.

[brockguy]

i dont know just why macauthor was odds on fav when O'Brien was quoted in the morning as saying that there was a slight tweak in his muscle after the last race... the race didnt look great beforehand but the winner won it well and is entitled to improve dramatically as it was his first run of the year.. Im sticking with Admiral though...

[brockguy]

Originally Posted by brockguy

2000 Sinndar - top class 2 Derbys and an Arc
2001 Galileo - top class 2 Derbys and a King George
2002 High Chaparral - top class 2 Derbys, 2 Breeders Cups, an Irish Champion Stakes
2003 - Alamshar - top class Irish Derby, King George
2004 - Yeats - top class Cornation Cup, Ascot Gold Cup
2005 - Fracas - eh, not quite the same level as above
2006 - Dylan Thomas - top class Irish Derby, Irish Champion Stakes x 2, Prix Ganay, King George, Arc

2007 Archipenko - on the verge of being top class after his great win in HK last month.


Will probably head to the town tomorrow to see the Derrinstown but also to see my fav Aussie horse Haradusun make his debut for APOB..

[brockguy]

well Haradasun is a non runner today, therefore so am I, will watch it on the telly..

[brockguy]

CASUAL CONQUEST - great win there from him, destroyed the Coolmore hype horse Washington Irving by 6L. Weld has put some high class horses in this race and not won (Relaxed Gesture, Vinnie Roe) and this guy looks like he could develop into a top class horse

[brockguy]

That time of year again - All set for another top class edition of the Derrinstown Stud Derby Trial. A review of the winners since 2000:

2000 Sinndar - top class 2 Derbys and an Arc
2001 Galileo - top class 2 Derbys and a King George
2002 High Chaparral - top class 2 Derbys, 2 Breeders Cups, an Irish Champion Stakes
2003 - Alamshar - top class Irish Derby, King George
2004 - Yeats - top class Cornation Cup, Ascot Gold Cup
2005 - Fracas - eh, not quite the same level as above
2006 - Dylan Thomas - top class Irish Derby, Irish Champion Stakes x 2, Prix Ganay, King George, Arc
2007 - Archipenko - top class, Audemars Piguet QE II Cup winner, 2nd Arlington Million, 3rd Dubai Duty Free
2008 - Casual Conquest - on the verge of being top class, 3rd Epsom Derby, 2nd Irish Derby, in training this year.

2009s edition
N0. FORM HORSE AGE WGT TRAINER RTF% JOCKEY OR TS RPR
1 1 11-1
Fame And Glory 21 3 9-4 A P O´Brien J A Heffernan 112 — 127
b c Montjeu — Gryada (GB) (Shirley Heights (GB))
2 5 32-122
Fergus McIver 7 b1 3 9-1 J S Bolger D J Moran 105 — 122
b c Sadler´s Wells (USA) — Danelissima (Danehill (USA))
3 7 156-44
Hail Caesar 21 3 9-1 A P O´Brien C O'Donoghue 102 — 119
gr c Montjeu — Alabastrine (GB) (Green Desert (USA))
4 6 41-0
Liszt 21 3 9-1 A P O´Brien S M Levey 93 — 99
gr c Galileo — Corrine (Spectrum)
5 2 35-
Loch Long 214 3 9-1 Tracey Collins P Shanahan — — 89
b c Galileo — Spinney (GB) (Unfuwain (USA))
6 4 8121-3
Mourayan 21 3 9-1 John M Oxx M J Kinane 111 — 127
b c Alhaarth — Mouramara (Kahyasi (GB))
7 3 056-8
Tarankali 21 3 9-1 John M Oxx F M Berry 90 — 111

[NoChanceToDance]

I think Fame And Glory could be very good. I say "think" because won very, very well on his debut this year (when Aidan's horses have been needing the run and so far have failed to impress). He seemed to win easily there and will no doubt come on a bundle, as all of Aidan's do.

However, I don't like the fact he was able to win over ten furlongs on heavy ground as a two year old. To me that suggests he could be rather slow.

I'm also not convinced that Aidan has a great crop of middle distance three year old colts this year. He seems to be taking stabs in the dark at all of the Derby trials, with horses seemingly not good enough (although won the Derby trial at Lingfield today). I just think that this could be a pretty lean year for O'Brien.

Mourayan looked good last year but was put in his place by Fame and Glory last month, and although he will improve for that, he surely can't have been so much further behind the O'Brien runner in terms of fitness? He's another one that would seem to be too slow this year.

Your thoughts, Brock?

[brockguy]

No Chance, its a very tough race to decipher. Its surely between the top 2 who could both be potential superstars. It's hard enough to take the last race completely at face value as Mourayan was checked coming round the home turn and surely would have gone much closer than he did. Whatever happens today, he defo looks a 12f horse. I was surprised Fame and Glory won last time out as O'Brien's horses were in such desperate form but he won it well enough. He only has a 3lb penalty today compared to a 5lb one in the Ballysax. If he is typical O'Brien type, he should improve a ton for the Ballysax run which is quite a scary thought. I laid him last night at 1.82 as he was far too short, I might decide to back him if he goes to about 2.2 or so.
Oxx sounds reasonably confident in Mourayan today so I think I'll side with him but I dont think I'll be playing it big.

Its strange that we could have 2 top notchers here today bred to relish the Derby trip but both stables potentially have a better Derby candidate in their barn.

[brockguy]

The best Group 2 in the world was on again on Sunday with Midas Touch providing Aidan O'Brien with yet another winner. I do think he will be battling Fracas as the worst winner of this race over the past decade.

A review of the winners since 2000:

2000 Sinndar - top class 2 Derbys and an Arc

2001 Galileo - top class 2 Derbys and a King George

2002 High Chaparral - top class 2 Derbys, 2 Breeders Cups, an Irish Champion Stakes

2003 - Alamshar - top class Irish Derby, King George

2004 - Yeats - top class Cornation Cup, Ascot Gold Cup

2005 - Fracas - eh, not quite the same level as above

2006 - Dylan Thomas - top class Irish Derby, Irish Champion Stakes x 2, Prix Ganay, King George, Arc

2007 - Archipenko - top class, Audemars Piguet QE II Cup winner, 2nd Arlington Million, 3rd Dubai Duty Free

2008 - Casual Conquest - just shy of top class 3rd Epsom Derby, 2nd Irish Derby won a soft G1 - Tattersalls Gold Cup - in training again this year

2009 - Fame and Glory - top class, albeit a bit 'slow' - Irish Derby winner, 2nd Derby, Irish Champion Stakes - stays in training this year

2010 - Midas Touch - ???

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by brockguy

I do think he will be battling Fracas as the worst winner of this race over the past decade.
2010 - Midas Touch - ???

This was a really really small field, right?

Trying to catch up, trying to remember...

Help!