Paging Eclipse

[JolyB]

In the points picks thread, you posted this comment:
BTW, anytime I bet on entries, also eligibles and most MTO horses, I haven't a clue lol. Like I don't even know what my 1-1A means above, whether one or both of those horses are even running in that race, just like those horses so somehow my picks came out that way:

I'd like to try to provide some clarification.

1. 1-1A - this tells you that under the rules of the host track, the two horses are treated as a single entry. It is the racing equivalent of "two for the price of one." If you go to the windows to bet, you would simply ask for a ticket on #1. If either part of the entry wins, you will cash your ticket.

Also, for purposes of our contests, when you post your picks, you simply put #1 in the desired slot and if either 1 or 1A hits the board, you will get the appropriate credit. It can get a little confusing when, say, #1 wins and #1A finishes second, as can happen. I'd rather not get into that now but would be glad to discuss that at a different time.

2. AE - stands for also eligible. That means that the horse has been entered in the race, but since the race has been oversubscribed, it is not yet in the main body of the race. If you like an AE horse, you need to pay attention to the scratches. If other horses are scratched, then there will be room in the starting gate for the also eligible horse to draw into the race and it will be one of the runners. If not, then it will be scratched.

3. MTO - in many turf races, a trainer will enter a "mudder" that will only run in the event that the race is taken off of the turf and runs on the main track. These can be exceptionally good bets when they do run since they prefer the dirt and the other horses in the race probably prefer the turf. Again, if the race remains on the turf, the MTO will be scratched.

Eclipse, this is very basic stuff and you might already know all of this. I certainly don't want to insult you by telling you things you already know. I simply am trying to answer the question you posed. If you want to continue this discussion or have more specific questions, please feel free to ask.

[Eclipse]

Thank you very much, JolyB. I knew some of that stuff but not all of it. Yesterday I saw a race won by 1A with 1 second. They took winner's circle pics of both of them even though it wasn't a dead heat, seemed weird and I couldn't figure out the payoffs. Fortunately I didn't bet.

So if I want to pick both parts of an entry in some order, I would just put "1" twice, leaving the "A" out?

Regarding AE and MTO horses, I did know what they are but not how to bet on them. Especially when races come off the turf, often most of the field scratches letting in all the MTOs and AEs who want to run. But they don't announce if races will be on or off turf before it's way too late to handicap. That is my main dilemna, hope this makes sense and thanks again.

[DonGuido]

Thanks JB, s'wy we luvs ya sew much!!!

[JolyB]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

So if I want to pick both parts of an entry in some order, I would just put "1" twice, leaving the "A" out?

When you are playing our points contest, you only need to enter the "1" one time. This is true whether you like the "1" part of the entry or the "1A" part. It is also true if you like BOTH haves of the entry. Only put in "1" once.

When scoring for an entry, Plenilune will treat them as a single unit, just as is done for betting purposes.

It might be helpful for you to look at the way our players post their picks. You will notice that even when there is an entry, the #1 is only entered once. By the way, it is possible for more than one coupled entry in a race. In that case, you might see a #2 and 2B. You could also see an entry of three horses, in which case they will be 1, 1A and 1X. No matter, the same principles apply - just think of the entry as a single unit.

When there are a number of MTO's, I go back and look at scratches and especially if the race has been taken off of the turf. Unfortunately, that might cause you to have to completely rethink the race at the last minute. Hopefully we won't have rain at Belmont tomorrow.

[cal828]

When you were trying to determine the finish line for different races, you commented that you might have to pay for past performances from Brisnet or Daily Racing Form. I put a post on how to find some free past performances, but was unsure whether you ever saw that or not and had trouble finding my own post, but finally found it. In case you didn't see it, here it is again:

Free past performances are available at several sites. Type in free past performances and then choose free past performances for horse racing and several sites will come up then choose horse racing.net and I think it says some thing about past performances for trainers. Then you will see a whole list of PPs for trainers and also breeders and there is a separate one for horses. Not an exhaustive listing, but pretty close. You may not find a horse under the Sire listing, but it may be under the Breeder. For example, I'm not sure that Animal Kingdom is listed under the Sire list, but he is under the Breeder which is Darley. It will likely take you a while to know which horses are under which breeders. I still don't know them all. Also, you might not find a listing anywhere for some state bred races for sires that are not much known outside that particular state.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by cal828

When you were trying to determine the finish line for different races, you commented that you might have to pay for past performances from Brisnet or Daily Racing Form. I put a post on how to find some free past performances, but was unsure whether you ever saw that or not and had trouble finding my own post, but finally found it. In case you didn't see it, here it is again:

Free past performances are available at several sites. Type in free past performances and then choose free past performances for horse racing and several sites will come up then choose horse racing.net and I think it says some thing about past performances for trainers. Then you will see a whole list of PPs for trainers and also breeders and there is a separate one for horses. Not an exhaustive listing, but pretty close. You may not find a horse under the Sire listing, but it may be under the Breeder. For example, I'm not sure that Animal Kingdom is listed under the Sire list, but he is under the Breeder which is Darley. It will likely take you a while to know which horses are under which breeders. I still don't know them all. Also, you might not find a listing anywhere for some state bred races for sires that are not much known outside that particular state.

Thank you, Cal. I didn't see your previous response (for some reason I don't usually get emails when new replies are posted, only sometimes) but will try this method of getting free pps.

[cal828]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Thank you, Cal. I didn't see your previous response (for some reason I don't usually get emails when new replies are posted, only sometimes) but will try this method of getting free pps.

If the pps are not there and sometimes this happens, I think Don Guido said that he buys them for a buck at brisnet.com.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by JolyB

When you are playing our points contest, you only need to enter the "1" one time. This is true whether you like the "1" part of the entry or the "1A" part. It is also true if you like BOTH haves of the entry. Only put in "1" once.

Thanks again, but what about in the points contest if I like both parts of an entry, but think one will finish 1st and the other 3rd? Or 1st and 2nd, or 2nd and 3rd. Where would I put the 1?

[DonGuido]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Thanks again, but what about in the points contest if I like both parts of an entry, but think one will finish 1st and the other 3rd? Or 1st and 2nd, or 2nd and 3rd. Where would I put the 1?

Youd have to decide which horse has the best chance of coming in 1st 2nd or 3rd. Think of the 1 and 1A as one horse. If you like the 1A better just put a 1 in the position you like. Many times but not always one of the coupled horse entries will get scratched but you still have the other in the position you selected.

Again thing of the 1 and 1A or 2 and 2A as one horse. Hope this helps.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by DonGuido

Youd have to decide which horse has the best chance of coming in 1st 2nd or 3rd. Think of the 1 and 1A as one horse. If you like the 1A better just put a 1 in the position you like. Many times but not always one of the coupled horse entries will get scratched but you still have the other in the position you selected.

Again thing of the 1 and 1A or 2 and 2A as one horse. Hope this helps.

Ahhhh, they're not one horse though, and most likely will not finish in the same position. So would it be impossible to hit an exacta or trifecta if both parts of an entry finish in the top 3?

[Plenilune]

It can get very complicated with entries like 1-1A. I effing hate them, LOL.

1 winner
2 place
1A show
5 fourth

Then I go through the picks and folks who picked 1 to win get those win points, and #5 moves up to third, for scoring purposes.

If someone picked #3 to win and #1 in another spot, then #1 would get show points. The points are scored to the best advantage of the player.

Lots of QA when the entries hit 1-3 spots. Just note, if you like 1 and 1A it should only be listed once.

[Real Quiet]

We basically go by the theory of bet like you were at the track. You can't go to a tellers window and say $2 on the 1A only. It's one pool. If you really like one part of the entry and it scratches you just have to change your wager. It's inconvenient but even if it happens at the gate at the track they might only give you a few minutes leeway and keep the windows open. But let's face it. It happens rarely and I don't know if we ever had issues. In one race today I like the 1A but today I won't be able to edit so it is what it is.

[Eclipse]

Thank you all very much for all the helpful information!