Points System for Kentucky Derby

[SniperSB23]

Threw this together quick but think it would blow away the current graded stakes earnings method/

Race - Points
4/30 THE SNOW CHIEF (HOLLYWOOD PARK) 5-3-1
4/29 WITHERS STAKES (AQUEDUCT PARK) 5-3-1
4/29 UNBRIDLED STAKES (CALDER RACE COURSE) 3-2-1
4/29 DERBY TRIAL (CHURCHILL DOWNS) 5-3-1
4/22 FEDERICO TESIO STAKES (PIMLICO RACE COURSE) 5-3-1
4/22 COOLMORE LEXINGTON STAKES (KEENELAND) 10-8-6-4-2
4/15 TOYOTA BLUE GRASS STAKES (KEENELAND) 20-16-12-8-4
4/15 THE NORTHERN SPUR BREEDERS' CUP STAKES (OAKLAWN PARK) 3-2-1
4/15 ARKANSAS DERBY (OAKLAWN PARK) 20-16-12-8-4
4/9 LAFAYETTE STAKES (KEENELAND) 3-2-1
4/8 WOOD MEMORIAL (AQUEDUCT PARK) 20-16-12-8-4
4/8 SANTA ANITA DERBY (SANTA ANITA PARK) 20-16-12-8-4
4/8 ILLINOIS DERBY (HAWTHORNE RACE COURSE) 10-8-6-4-2
4/8 BAY SHORE STAKES (AQUEDUCT PARK) 3-2-1
4/1 WINSTAR DERBY (SUNLAND PARK) 5-3-1
4/1 FLORIDA DERBY (GULFSTREAM PARK) 20-16-12-8-4
3/25 RUSHAWAY STAKES (TURFWAY PARK) 5-3-1
3/25 LANE'S END STAKES (TURFWAY PARK) 10-8-6-4-2
3/18 THE TAMPA BAY DERBY (TAMPA BAY DOWNS) 10-8-6-4-2
3/18 THE SAN FELIPE (SANTA ANITA PARK) 10-8-6-4-2
3/18 THE REBEL STAKES (OAKLAWN PARK) 10-8-6-4-2
3/18 GOTHAM (AQUEDUCT PARK) 10-8-6-4-2
3/11 CALIFORNIA DERBY (GOLDEN GATE FIELDS) 7-5-3-1
3/4 SWALE STAKES (GULFSTREAM PARK) 3-2-1
3/4 SANTA CATALINA STAKES (SANTA ANITA PARK) 10-8-6-4-2
3/4 JOHN BATTAGLIA MEMORIAL STAKES (TURFWAY PARK) 5-3-1
3/4 FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH STAKES (GULFSTREAM PARK) 10-8-6-4-2
2/26 BORDERLAND DERBY (SUNLAND PARK) 5-3-1
2/25 THE SOUTHWEST STAKES (OAKLAWN PARK) 7-5-3-1
2/18 THE SAM F. DAVIS STAKES (TAMPA BAY DOWNS) 7-5-3-1
2/12 SAN VICENTE STAKES (SANTA ANITA PARK) 7-5-3-1
2/4 SHAM STAKES (SANTA ANITA PARK) 7-5-3-1
2/4 HUTCHESON STAKES (GULFSTREAM PARK) 3-2-1
2/4 HOLY BULL STAKES (GULFSTREAM PARK) 7-5-3-1
1/29 EL CAMINO REAL DERBY (BAY MEADOWS) 5-3-1
1/21 CRESCENT CITY DERBY (FAIR GROUNDS AT LOUISIANA DOWNS) 3-2-1
1/14 SAN RAFAEL STAKES (SANTA ANITA PARK) 5-3-1
1/14 RISEN STAR STAKES (FAIR GROUNDS AT LOUISIANA DOWNS) 5-3-1
1/7 AVENTURA STAKES (GULFSTREAM PARK) 5-3-1
12/9 DELTA JACKPOT (DELTA DOWNS) 5-3-1
11/25 REMSEN STAKES (AQUEDUCT PARK) 5-3-1
11/25 KENTUCKY JOCKEY CLUB (CHURCHILL DOWNS) 5-3-1
11/4 BREEDERS' CUP JUVENILE (CHURCHILL DOWNS) 10-8-6-4-2
11/3 NASHUA STAKES (AQUEDUCT PARK) 5-3-1
10/29 IROQUOIS STAKES (CHURCHILL DOWNS) 5-3-1
10/8 NORFOLK BREEDERS' CUP STAKES (OAK TREE AT SANTA ANITA) 7-5-3-1
10/7 LANE'S END BREEDERS' FUTURITY (KEENELAND) 7-5-3-1
10/14 CHAMPAGNE STAKES (BELMONT PARK) 7-5-3-1
9/30 KENTUCKY CUP JUVENILE STAKES (TURFWAY PARK) 5-3-1
9/23 FUTURITY STAKES (BELMONT PARK) 5-3-1
9/10 ARLINGTON-WASHINGTON BREEDERS' CUP FUTURITY (ARLINGTON PARK) 5-3-1
9/6 DEL MAR FUTURITY (DEL MAR) 7-5-3-1
9/4 SAPLING STAKES (MONMOUTH PARK) 3-2-1
9/4 LAFAYETTE STAKES (EVANGELINE DOWNS) 3-2-1
9/4 I'M SMOKIN STAKES (DEL MAR) 3-2-1
9/4 HOPEFUL (SARATOGA RACE COURSE) 7-5-3-1
8/17 SARATOGA SPECIAL BREEDERS' CUP STAKES (SARATOGA RACE COURSE) 5-3-1
8/13 BEST PAL STAKES (DEL MAR) 5-3-1
7/27 SANFORD STAKES (SARATOGA RACE COURSE) 5-3-1
7/8 BASHFORD MANOR STAKES (CHURCHILL DOWNS) 3-2-1
7/4 TREMONT (BELMONT PARK) 3-2-1
7/4 HOLLYWOOD JUVENILE CHAMPIONSHIP (HOLLYWOOD PARK) 3-2-1
5/4 KENTUCKY BREEDERS' CUP (CHURCHILL DOWNS) 3-2-1

What you are saying is 4 Grade III wins is equal to 1 Grade I win? I am not so sure about that.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

What you are saying is 4 Grade III wins is equal to 1 Grade I win? I am not so sure about that.

I ignored grading when assigning the points, instead using relevance to the Triple Crown. I'm not sure which G3s there are that are only worth 5 points but I imagine they are either sprints, 2yo races, or in January or late May.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I ignored grading when assigning the points, instead using relevance to the Triple Crown. I'm not sure which G3s there are that are only worth 5 points but I imagine they are either sprints, 2yo races, or in January or late May.

Awww gotcha. Acutally I like the points system. I think it is awesome.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Awww gotcha. Acutally I like the points system. I think it is awesome.

I just realized they were in a wacky order so I edited my original post. I certainly think this would work well.

[Linny]

I like the idea. I'd support a point system rather than graded stakes earnings alone. I think that graded earnings should be converted to points and weighted. Routes get more points than sprints, G1's get more points than G2 or 3.
As it stands now, a dollar earned in the G3 Flash or Bashford Manor (very early 2yo stakes) counts as much as a dollar earned in the Wood Memorial or the Blue Grass. It doesn't happen often but it is possible than a win early 2yo type could keep a true contender out of the Derby.

That said, I have little sympathy for trainers who want to run 2x before the Derby, picking and choosing spots then get mad because their "second coming of Man O War" got left out. They are all aware of the rules as they stand.

[sumitas]

I like the idea of a computer generated poll for all the divisions. The poll needs to factor in competition level, etc. And I think this site , teamed with T-graph, is in the perfect spot to start such polls. The poll could be patented and be a vehicle for promoting Derby Trail and T-graph as well.

[kgar311]

Very rough sketch im sure, but seems very easy for the 2yr old juv. champ and maybe 2yr old horse of the year to be excluded for the derby with a couple bad trips.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Very rough sketch im sure, but seems very easy for the 2yr old juv. champ and maybe 2yr old horse of the year to be excluded for the derby with a couple bad trips.

You could make that a 20 point race but really if you can't make the top 20 in points after the head start you would get from your 2yo points do you really belong in the Derby?

I dont think the 2 year old juve race winner acutally belongs in the derby. One race should give you an exemtion to the most important race in the world for 3 year olds.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

You could make that a 20 point race but really if you can't make the top 20 in points after the head start you would get from your 2yo points do you really belong in the Derby?

Say the horse has a minor injury after the BC comes back late march in an allowance wins by 15 or so now they have to cram in a stake before the derby just to get some points when he already has a million in bankroll.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Say the horse has a minor injury after the BC comes back late march in an allowance wins by 15 or so now they have to cram in a stake before the derby just to get some points when he already has a million in bankroll.

I suppose that could be a problem but how often do we have a horse go straight from an allowance to the Derby? Either way if you used this system you would probably want the first 16 to be determined by points and the last 4 at the discretion of a committee like the BC. That way if a top Euro or the UAE Derby winner or an exceptional filly want to run there is a way to include them. The horse you suggested could get in through one of the four open spots.

[Thunder Gulch]

I don't mind it the way it is. Everyone knows the rules and has the same chance to run in whichever spot they choose to get the earnings. I hate it every year when somebody crushes a G3 field in mid-April, and then gets upset at the system about not having the graded earnings to get in the Derby.

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I don't mind it the way it is. Everyone knows the rules and has the same chance to run in whichever spot they choose to get the earnings. I hate it every year when somebody crushes a G3 field in mid-April, and then gets upset at the system about not having the graded earnings to get in the Derby.

I am sort of torn because one race can decide if you get in or not. Sort of like Wilko. He really didnt below in the Derby. However, I think a poits sytem is a good approach.