Pleasant Prince - excuses?

[AeWingnut]

I don't really know if this has been discussed. I was wondering what if any excuses were offered for Pleasant Prince's performance in the Bluegrass Stakes.

I picked Plesant Prince in the Bluegrass even though I knew this race wasn't part of the plan - he entered because he needed earning. Those works looked very fast. I could understand him flattening out but he never seemed to pick his feet up. Just sat back and never quickened.

I bet PP in the Future pools because I figured this derby could be loaded with pace and if it fell apart - The plodder Pleasant Prince could be rolling like Giacamo.

Now I don't have to worry about any of this but wondered if anyone had the skinny on future plans.

[MISTERGEE]

I guess he hates synthetic

[AeWingnut]

Trainer Wesley Ward said Ken and Sarah Ramsey's PLEASANT PRINCE (Indy King), seventh in the Blue Grass, came out of the race well.

"He is perfect this morning. We scoped him after the race yesterday and he scoped clean," Ward said.

"He had worked so well last Sunday when it was cool, and I think if the Blue Grass had been run the day before, he would have handled the track better. The sun was out, the girls were in their sundresses and it was great for everybody, but not my horse. He just didn't get hold of the track like he did in his work Sunday (five furlongs in :58 2/5)."

Pleasant Prince picked up $3,750 on Saturday from the Blue Grass to increase his graded stakes earnings to $166,250, good for only 29th on the list of horses considering a Kentucky Derby run. The top 20 horses in graded stakes earnings entered earn a spot in the starting gate.

"We gave it a shot yesterday to get the earnings," Ward said. "We are going to train like we are going to the Derby, but we are in trouble. (Jockey) Julien (Leparoux) told Mr. Ramsey after the race to just throw it out because he didn't handle the track.

"We will probably go on to the Preakness ([G1] at Pimlico on May 15). We will get Julien (Leparoux) to breeze him here a couple of times."

[MISTERGEE]

like I said didnt handle the track and hates synthetic, just like so many others in that race. if either of those first 2 horses run in the derby they will be crushed

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by MISTERGEE

like I said didnt handle the track and hates synthetic, just like so many others in that race. if either of those first 2 horses run in the derby they will be crushed

Pleasant Prince won't be crushed in the Derby

[clyde]

He'll be eaten alive.

[VOL JACK]

I have never heard a loss blamed on the sun before.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

I have never heard a loss blamed on the sun before.

it makes a huge difference when it comes to synthetics

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

it makes a huge difference when it comes to synthetics

Oh no, Synthetics are bias free.
Just ask TFM..

[the_fat_man]

If the Arkansas Derby didn't got 1-2-3 around the track, I might want to try to make a point.

If I couldn't beat a particular surface, I'd stop playing it.

Another option, of course, would be to whine about it.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

If the Arkansas Derby didn't got 1-2-3 around the track, I might want to try to make a point.

If I couldn't beat a particular surface, I'd stop playing it.

Another option, of course, would be to whine about it.

thats what i do. the bluegrass was the first main track bet i made at that rat trap of a track. and looking at the results now i know why. plus i whine about it too because that race is an absolute joke. these tracks are just so great, the sun shines it changes and melts.....real good....it rains a little at another one and it closes...all weather my @ss. i guess you had that non winner of one that looked like he did not even belong in that race and won for fun. we will see how legit that result was in a couple weeks. my guess, yet another keenland reject up the track on derby day. yeah, arkansas was speed favoring but i'll bet one of the top three will run a decent race next time.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

If the Arkansas Derby didn't got 1-2-3 around the track, I might want to try to make a point.

If I couldn't beat a particular surface, I'd stop playing it.

Another option, of course, would be to whine about it.

Oh yeah, pick out one dirt race.
Take a look at the chart for Oaklawn and Kee last week.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out which track was playing fair and which one was not.

[the_fat_man]

4/10

2 wire jobs on POLY at KEE (2 others on turf)

4 wire jobs at OP (and another the winner was 2nd early)

Now, this doesn't really say much but it refutes your point.


I think the notion that there's a BIAS on synthetic surfaces (or that jocks intentionally restrain their horses early) is just ridiculous. It's about as ridiculous as the BOUNCE.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

4/10

2 wire jobs on POLY at KEE (2 others on turf)

4 wire jobs at OP (and another the winner was 2nd early)

Now, this doesn't really say much but it refutes your point.


I think the notion that there's a BIAS on synthetic surfaces (or that jocks intentionally restrain their horses early) is just ridiculous. It's about as ridiculous as the BOUNCE.

Synthetic surfaces, specifically Polytrack, have a temperature bias, when it is in the 50's and 60's, and especially when cloudy, it tightens up and the front end does good. When it is in the 70's and the sun is out, it softens up and closers do much much better.

You are correct that Saturday was a fair day on the polytrack

Wednesday/Thursday and somewhat Friday were a front end highway at Keeneland on the poly. The front end was great all week on the turf.

I can't comment on Oaklawn because I watched two races there all week.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by Scav

Synthetic surfaces, specifically Polytrack, have a temperature bias, when it is in the 50's and 60's, and especially when cloudy, it tightens up and the front end does good. When it is in the 70's and the sun is out, it softens up and closers do much much better.

You are correct that Saturday was a fair day on the polytrack

Wednesday/Thursday and somewhat Friday were a front end highway at Keeneland on the poly. The front end was great all week on the turf.

I can't comment on Oaklawn because I watched two races there all week.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Scav

Synthetic surfaces, specifically Polytrack, have a temperature bias, when it is in the 50's and 60's, and especially when cloudy, it tightens up and the front end does good. When it is in the 70's and the sun is out, it softens up and closers do much much better.

You are correct that Saturday was a fair day on the polytrack

Wednesday/Thursday and somewhat Friday were a front end highway at Keeneland on the poly. The front end was great all week on the turf.

I can't comment on Oaklawn because I watched two races there all week.

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt concerning KEE and took time out to do the charts for 4/07

By race, here are the positions of the top three finishers at the 1st call (for the poly races) -- this is per the charts and not Trakus, btw

1) 3-5-2
2) 2-6-7
3) 8-7-4
4) 5-2-6
6) 10-5-2
8) 1-5-7
9) 3-2-9

Yup, definitely looks like there was a SPEED bias at KEE on Wednesday.

You guys actually bet or keep records? I don't particularly keep many records but this stuff is OBVIOUS.

[Gaining Ground]

if you look at thursday and friday at keeneland the bias is more noticeable.

thursday there were 7 main track races. races 1,2,3 and 8 were won wire to wire. race 4 the winner was on the pace early then dropped into a good spot and race 5 the winner dueled inside on the pace with the runnerup. so, 4 of 7 wire to wire and 2 more on the pace. thats 6 of 7.

friday there were 7 main track races. races 2,3,6,8,10 were won wire to wire. race 1 was a baby race and race 4 the winner was tucked in, close to the pace. 5 of 7 winners wire to wire. 6 of 7 were on or near the lead.

it didnt hurt being on the pace thursday and friday, thats for sure.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt concerning KEE and took time out to do the charts for 4/07

By race, here are the positions of the top three finishers at the 1st call (for the poly races) -- this is per the charts and not Trakus, btw

1) 3-5-2
2) 2-6-7
3) 8-7-4
4) 5-2-6
6) 10-5-2
8) 1-5-7
9) 3-2-9

Yup, definitely looks like there was a SPEED bias at KEE on Wednesday.

You guys actually bet or keep records? I don't particularly keep many records but this stuff is OBVIOUS.

I am not trying to argue with you at all so don't get all fired up, but speed was good both days.

Wednesday
1) Winner was 1/2 length off the front, first call
2) 1.5 length off
3) 2 lengths off (not confirmed because I don't have time to watch replay)
4) 3.5 lengths off
6) Dead closer
8) Gate to wire
9) 2 lengths off

You had to be close Wednesday.
Thursday
1) Gate to wire
2) Gate to wire (not really because Ward's horse took the lead for a while but the chart doesn't show it)
3) Gate to wire
4) Weird race, but was on the front end
5) 1/2 length off
6) Dead last closer
8) Gate to wire