Flower Alley might be done...

...speculation that something was physically wrong with this horse earlier this year probably holds up as solid theory now after watching him pitch in the towel on the far turn Saturday....he was never a world beater to begin with but he is clearly not the same animal that pushed Saint Liam to the wire in last year's BC Classic...

I questioned the late satrt to his '06 campaign and the fact that Pletcher had to go find an easy spot at Monmouth to start off the year....just never had postive vibes about this horse this year, and I would go as far to say that I would be surprised if they were able to turn him around in time to make him a legitimate contender for the BC Classic this year......currently, he isn't even in the top 5 when talking about contenders for that race at this point...

I wouldn't be shocked if his retirement were announced soon - especially after another bad start in the near future....we've seen his best running...

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

...speculation that something was physically wrong with this horse earlier this year probably holds up as solid theory now after watching him pitch in the towel on the far turn Saturday....he was never a world beater to begin with but he is clearly not the same animal that pushed Saint Liam to the wire in last year's BC Classic...

I questioned the late satrt to his '06 campaign and the fact that Pletcher had to go find an easy spot at Monmouth to start off the year....just never had postive vibes about this horse this year, and I would go as far to say that I would be surprised if they were able to turn him around in time to make him a legitimate contender for the BC Classic this year......currently, he isn't even in the top 5 when talking about contenders for that race at this point...

I wouldn't be shocked if his retirement were announced soon - especially after another bad start in the near future....we've seen his best running...

Joel do you have any info on this? I have been awfully nervous about him since the race was over and haven't really heard an explanation. Any little birds whispering in your ear?

Nothing at all....just a gut feeling after watching the way he has been campaigned this year and seeing how poorly he travelled and performed Saturday...this is not a rumor going around and I don't want to start a rumor...this is just my opinion on the horse....he has some issues and they are obviously affecting his performance now...

Flower Alley looked awful during Derby week. But he did look good in the Salvatore Mile. Pletcher has this schedule mapped out ever since Dec of 2005. I doubt he had an injury then. I think the horse just ran a clunker and Pletcher didnt have him ready.

i enjoy reading this site but please do not speculate like this without information. it is not fair to the trainer because the betting public will get all over him for running a horse that was not sound. TP would never do that.

TP would have like to get a 2nd prep in and he was not able to. I would not count this horse out yet. He ran ok for 8F but was not totally fit for the race.

I believe it was made quite clear that it was just his opinion. If the "betting public" wants to make their own decision about where to put their money from someone else's opinions, then so be it. But I dont think there's anything wrong with what was said. I do agree, though, that TP wouldnt run him if he knew he was unsound...

[Gander]

How come Pletcher couldnt get that 2nd prep in him before the Whitney if he had this whole campaign planned out for the past 9 months?

Do you guys think there were physical problems that forced him to be out for those 8 months, before he beat Guns n Roses at Monmouth?

[slotdirt]

I don't think it's such a bad thing to say that perhaps Flower Alley just needed the race. I suspect that is the case, not injury. Besides, it wasn't like he was facing a bunch of chumps at 'Toga on Saturday. There's no shame in losing in your second start back in darn near a year to horses like Invasor and West Virginia.

[ArlJim78]

I don't believe its a knock on the trainer or that this is just a fitness issue.
What I am concerned about, and I believe others as well, is that it's something else physically that we just don't know about yet. He should not have given a performance like he did on Saturday if everything was OK, imo.
I'll bet that Pletcher was expecting more out of him even if he felt that he was a race behind Invasor in terms of fitness.

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I don't think it's such a bad thing to say that perhaps Flower Alley just needed the race. I suspect that is the case, not injury. Besides, it wasn't like he was facing a bunch of chumps at 'Toga on Saturday. There's no shame in losing in your second start back in darn near a year to horses like Invasor and West Virginia.

I agree. In fact, I wasnt expecting him to win... then again I thought Survivalist would.

[Gander]

The Flower Alley we saw last year would not have lost to West Virginia and would have at least given Invasor a tussle.

Hard to believe in that many months he couldnt have come up with a 2nd prep so he would have been at his best for one of the most important races of the year.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by Balletto

I agree. In fact, I wasnt expecting him to win... then again I thought Survivalist would.

Well, hello!, a son of Danzig out of a Mr. Prospector mare! How could he not? (By the way, if you love Survivalist, you must REALLY love Defer?)

[Danzig]

i think pletcher mapped out a plan for a late summer/fall campaign to win hoy with the horse...problem is, flower alley can't read maps!
if the horse comes back ok from the race, continue on...tighten the screws and hope for the best. now, if he tosses another clunker..then ya quit on him.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i think pletcher mapped out a plan for a late summer/fall campaign to win hoy with the horse...problem is, flower alley can't read maps!
if the horse comes back ok from the race, continue on...tighten the screws and hope for the best. now, if he tosses another clunker..then ya quit on him.

Looks like Flower Alley is ok physically. But they drew some blood and the should have the results on 8/8/06. I think they wont find anything. NEWS FLASH--Flower Alley ran a dull race the last couple of furlongs. He was not in shape, he needed this race. Pletcher is to blame for not having the horse ready. Plain and simple.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

NEWS FLASH--Flower Alley ran a dull race the last couple of furlongs. He was not in shape, he needed this race. Pletcher is to blame for not having the horse ready. Plain and simple.

Pletcher even said before the race that flower alley would need one before he'd be on top of his game. . . he's not to blame for anything. . . this race was just another step towards getting flower alley ready for the BC. . . i do think invasor is a better horse though

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I don't think it's such a bad thing to say that perhaps Flower Alley just needed the race. I suspect that is the case, not injury. Besides, it wasn't like he was facing a bunch of chumps at 'Toga on Saturday. There's no shame in losing in your second start back in darn near a year to horses like Invasor and West Virginia.

The horse already had a prep race. How short could he have been on Saturday? If a horse is going to be a little short in a situation like this, it means he may run 1-2 lengths short of his best. FA got beat by 10 lengths. There was definitely something wrong. His being a little short could explain a 1-2 length defeat, not a 10 length defeat.

I still would not totally count the horse out though. Pletcher has good vets and they can often get a couple more good races out of horses even if the horse has a fairly significant problem. They obviously need to be careful with this horse because he is a very valuable horse. It's a fine line how hard to push in a situation like this. On the one hand, you can push a little harder than normal if you know the horse is retiring after two more races, which is the case here. In other words, they don't have to worry about doing a little bit of permanent damage to him if he's retiring any way. They can't push too hard though. They don't want the horse to break down.

Trainers will often times find themselves in this predicament with 3 year olds. They will have a 3 year old that has a bad ankle and the Ky Derby is a month away. They have two choices. They can turn the horse out to the farm and be confident that the horse will come back 100%, but if they do this they will miss the Derby. The other choice is to inject the horse's ankle and run him in the Derby, but there is the possibility that permanent damage will be done to the ankle. That means the horse may not be able to come back as a 4 year old.

There are so many things that go on that the fans know nothing about. A trainer will never say publicly, "The horse ran bad last time because his ankle was bothering him. This time we injected the ankle with cortisone, and that's why he ran so much better today." You will never hear a trainer say that. They'll have some bogus excuse as to why the horse ran bad in the previous race. They'll say that he was short, or that he didn't like the track or something like that.

[pdrift1]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The horse already had a prep race. How short could he have been on Saturday? If a horse is going to be a little short in a situation like this, it means he may run 1-2 lengths short of his best. FA got beat by 10 lengths. There was definitely something wrong. His being a little short could explain a 1-2 length defeat, not a 10 length defeat.

I still would not totally count the horse out though. Pletcher has good vets and they can often get a couple more good races out of horses even if the horse has a fairly significant problem. They obviously need to be careful with this horse because he is a very valuable horse. It's a fine line how hard to push in a situation like this. On the one hand, you can push a little harder than normal if you know the horse is retiring after two more races, which is the case here. In other words, they don't have to worry about doing a little bit of permanent damage to him if he's retiring any way. They can't push too hard though. They don't want the horse to break down.

Trainers will often times find themselves in this predicament with 3 year olds. They will have a 3 year old that has a bad ankle and the Ky Derby is a month away. They have two choices. They can turn the horse out to the farm and be confident that the horse will come back 100%, but if they do this they will miss the Derby. The other choice is to inject the horse's ankle and run him in the Derby, but there is the possibility that permanent damage will be done to the ankle. That means the horse may not be able to come back as a 4 year old.

There are so many things that go on that the fans know nothing about. A trainer will never say publicly, "The horse ran bad last time because his ankle was bothering him. This time we injected the ankle with cortisone, and that's why he ran so much better today." You will never hear a trainer say that. They'll have some bogus excuse as to why the horse ran bad in the previous race. They'll say that he was short, or that he didn't like the track or something like that.

rupert you hit the nail right on the head about this game

[paisjpq]

very well said rupert...I agree on all points.
If FA was just a little short he should have been in the race all the way to the wire, maybe fading to finish 4th or something. He just wasn't the same horse as he was last year. I think Betsy said it best in another thread--that while horses around him have continued to evolve he might have finished developing last fall.

I also am thinking exactly like Rupert, really nothing to add to his comments. The horse was not at 100% fitness but he had a prep race and is obviously much better than that. The reason I immediately felt something was wrong was because he was empty on the turn. A horse of his caliber is not going to be that empty on the turn while stalking a moderate pace. Its not like he was pushing an extremely fast pace and just chucked it.
I'm not so sure that something eas bothering him beforehand though. All clocker accounts I had were that he was working and going extremely well. Noone had him going sore or lame. In addition, like Eurobounce has said, in Kentucky my clocker said he was heavy and not at all fit but up here prior to the race he had really turned into a physical beast. My clocker said he looked extremely good and was a block of muscle who looked great from every aspect.
I'm also puzzled about the juice accusations towards Pletcher in such mass quantities. You know I'm not stupid about suspecting certain people of messing around. In Todd's case I just have to wonder what the accusers are seeing that I am not. On Saturday he went 0-fer again and had the last place finisher in the test(as the favorite no less), a bad loss in Flower Alley to go with a 3rd by West Virginia, a third by a firster, and a 2nd bya miaden(that he should have won) on the grass. He was at least 0-5 and got blaned wednesday-friday as well. He won one on Sunday with a short priced allowance runner and won both the Matchmaker and the Haskell but lost with a short priced horse in an allowance race at monmouth as well(horse was named Spring at Last and he was just awful). If todd is doing so much monkeying pleease explain to me why his percentage up here and down below is the same or lower than it has been all year? Juicers tend to realy get on rolls and win with everything in sight. Todd is sending out a lot of horses who fit from a figure perspective but just aren't firing, yet he is winning some races. It simply can't be both ways. Does he have the most expensive vet work and shoeing and feed and exercise riders that money can buy? Yes. Hes able to do this due to the money his owners have and the massive money making operation he has. But i simply don't see any miracles out of his barn. He spots horses as well as anyone alive and quite frankly hes losing more than his share right now with well spotted horses. If hes working miracles someone needs to clue me in on what they are because quite frankly I pay attention as well as anyone and I'm kind of scratching my head wondering where these miracles are that I am not seeing.

[JJP]

Flower Alley might be the most overrated horse of this century so far. His accomplishment? Beating Bellamy Road in the Travers when, a) BR was running at a distance less than his best, b) there were issues on how fit BR was. Bellamy Road sets a fast pace and runs out of gas so FA inherits the win. In the BC Classic, again almost a paceless race, he happens to be near the front and finishes a non-threatening 4th. I thought the final margin was very deceptive. Saint Liam could've probably dusted him by 10 lengths if he wanted to. So he comes out and beats a small field of nobodies in the Salvatore Mile.......let's face it. This horse was NEVER going to be a legit Horse of the Year candidate.