Kentucky Derby Future Wager

justindew · #1 02-03-2009, 08:49 AM

It's annoying as hell that 10 years after this bet was introduced, we are still only offered 24 betting interests. The reason for this is related to the tote companies. However, I have an idea for a solution that would allow us to bet on hundreds of individual horses like in Vegas.

Instead of offering us one field of 24 betting interests to bet on, Churchill Downs could offer, say, 30 fields of 24 betting interests. The horses would be listed alphabetically starting in Race 1, and after every 24 horses a new "race" would be created until every horses is listed. Obviously, the tote system could not be used to calculate odds accurately, because multiple "races" would comprise the same bet. But this can be done manually with little effort I would imagine. Takeout would be no problem.

For example, if I like Old Fashioned, and he is listed in Race 12 as horse #15, I would say to the teller "Churchill Downs race 12, $2 to WIN on #15."

Bottom line: One bet made up of many different fields, or races, with all the money combined at the end to make up one pool. Odds calculated manually every hour so bettors can make informed judgments.

dellinger63 · #2 02-03-2009, 08:59 AM

Why not just have 720 horses numbered 1-720?

justindew · #3 02-03-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Why not just have 720 horses numbered 1-720?

The tote system will not accommodate that many individual betting interests.

philcski · #4 02-03-2009, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

It's annoying as hell that 10 years after this bet was introduced, we are still only offered 24 betting interests. The reason for this is related to the tote companies. However, I have an idea for a solution that would allow us to bet on hundreds of individual horses like in Vegas.

Instead of offering us one field of 24 betting interests to bet on, Churchill Downs could offer, say, 30 fields of 24 betting interests. The horses would be listed alphabetically starting in Race 1, and after every 24 horses a new "race" would be created until every horses is listed. Obviously, the tote system could not be used to calculate odds accurately, because multiple "races" would comprise the same bet. But this can be done manually with little effort I would imagine. Takeout would be no problem.

For example, if I like Old Fashioned, and he is listed in Race 12 as horse #15, I would say to the teller "Churchill Downs race 12, $2 to WIN on #15."

Bottom line: One bet made up of many different fields, or races, with all the money combined at the end to make up one pool. Odds calculated manually every hour so bettors can make informed judgments.

how about even simpler, you bet a "trifecta" of the horse you want- so if Old Fashioned is #318 you bet 3-1-8? it's a cop-out by CDI by not having every horse nominated for the TC listed.

Kasept · #5 02-03-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

The tote system will not accommodate that many individual betting interests.

This is perhaps the grandest falsehood ever perpetrated on racing fandom. Las Vegas can make book on EVER SINGLE T.C. NOMINEE, and many more un-nominated horses, but 'the tote system cannot accomodate that many individual betting betting interests'. In fact they can. The reality is that no one seems interested in taking the time to create the scenario that would make it work.

But if CDI wants to cling to the hackneyed tote excuse, as an alternative, take Steve Crist's suggestion and allow for exacta wagering to spice this tired thing up.

blackthroatedwind · #6 02-03-2009, 10:30 AM

Now I'm never going to be able to hedge the 75:1 I took on Nicanor.

robfla · #7 02-03-2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

allow for exacta wagering to spice this tired thing up.

that would be nice, but what if you bet a 9 / 15 exacta and the 15 is scratched?

NTamm1215 · #8 02-03-2009, 10:33 AM

I can tell you this much, I'm going to Vegas this weekend and wouldn't mind finding some horses to throw a few bucks on and I'll carry my ass to Wynn to do it. A Derby Future Wager with 24 betting interests is a joke.

Something has to be done to spice it up, just as Steve said.

NT

blackthroatedwind · #9 02-03-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robfla

that would be nice, but what if you bet a 9 / 15 exacta and the 15 is scratched?

Like all future wagers, if your horse doesn't run you lose.

GPK · #10 02-03-2009, 10:37 AM

I'm fairly certain if I look long enough, I can still find my uncashed future wager on Rockport Harbor

Kasept · #11 02-03-2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Now I'm never going to be able to hedge the 75:1 I took on Nicanor.

Was that to win the Derby.. or win a race ever?

smuthg · #12 02-03-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

I'm fairly certain if I look long enough, I can still find my uncashed future wager on Rockport Harbor

LOL... I think I've still got my $100 "Rocky" future ticket.

justindew · #13 02-03-2009, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

This is perhaps the grandest falsehood ever perpetrated on racing fandom. Las Vegas can make book on EVER SINGLE T.C. NOMINEE, and many more un-nominated horses, but 'the tote system cannot accomodate that many individual betting betting interests'. In fact they can. The reality is that no one seems interested in taking the time to create the scenario that would make it work.

But if CDI wants to cling to the hackneyed tote excuse, as an alternative, take Steve Crist's suggestion and allow for exacta wagering to spice this tired thing up.

Steve, just for the record, I have been told by high-level execs at CD that the tote system in place RIGHT NOW will not allow it. Changes would have to be made. Then the issue of cost comes into play.

my miss storm cat · #14 02-03-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg

LOL... I think I've still got my $100 "Rocky" future ticket.

I still have my Flashy Bull ticket but, sadly, don't know what happened to the one for Itsallaboutthechase.

NTamm1215 · #15 02-03-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I still have my Flashy Bull ticket but, sadly, don't know what happened to the one for Itsallaboutthechase.

Figured you for a Soul Warrior fan this year with his dam being the same as your beloved namesake.

NT

my miss storm cat · #16 02-03-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Figured you for a Soul Warrior fan this year with his dam being the same as your beloved namesake.

NT

Oh! Thanks for the heads up. I'm a pedigree moron and so didn't know but will keep an eye on that one!

Oaklawnfan · #17 02-03-2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smuthg

LOL... I think I've still got my $100 "Rocky" future ticket.

I found mine, right next to my Lawyer Ron future ticket.

brianwspencer · #18 02-03-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

I still have my Flashy Bull ticket but, sadly, don't know what happened to the one for Itsallaboutthechase.

Oh my god thank you for that. I feel immediately better about the Cowboy Cal ticket hanging on my fridge.

Cannon Shell · #19 02-03-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

The tote system will not accommodate that many individual betting interests.

Then they need a new tote company. In 2009 you cant write software to cover 700 horses? That is a joke.

Cannon Shell · #20 02-03-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

Steve, just for the record, I have been told by high-level execs at CD that the tote system in place RIGHT NOW will not allow it. Changes would have to be made. Then the issue of cost comes into play.

Maybe if Churchill spent more time and money on its tote system instead of screwing around in Silicon Valley and replacing every vice president every other year it could be done. I mean why spend money on a tote system when your main income is wagering?