7/19 (BEL): Coaching Club American Oaks (Gr. I)

[Kasept]

9th (5:15) Coaching Club American Oaks (G1)

1 1/4 Miles | Fillies | 3 Year Olds Stakes | Purse: $300,000

2 Acoma Leparoux J R 121 L
1 Little Belle Maragh R 121 L
3 Never Retreat Luzzi M J 121 L
4 Flaming Slew Coa E M 121 L
1A Music Note Castellano J J 121 L

A-Coupled: Little Belle and Music Note

Might as well cancel the race.

[declansharbor]

Suroor's entry should give them a furlong head start to make it somewhat interesting.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Suroor's entry should give them a furlong head start to make it somewhat interesting.

I've been a huge fan of Lil Belle but she will be off her game in this. Hasn't run since the Ken Oaks and only recently started back in late June with only three works going in here. She won't be fit for this and they are probably using her to help Music Note. They aren't even running Lil Belle under Godolphin. First race off of the "promotion" is never a good angle either.

[Kasept]

They are running Little Belle under Godolphin according to the PP's. I think she's an utter mediocrity that got fortunate with the poly-aided Gr. I.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Kasept

They are running Little Belle under Godolphin according to the PP's. I think she's an utter mediocrity that got fortunate with the poly-aided Gr. I.

I'd love to see a Little Belle/Christmas Kid match race.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Kasept

They are running Little Belle under Godolphin according to the PP's. I think she's an utter mediocrity that got fortunate with the poly-aided Gr. I.

Amen to that. Where is her good race?

Acoma may be a LOT better than people are giving her credit for.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by Kasept

They are running Little Belle under Godolphin according to the PP's. I think she's an utter mediocrity that got fortunate with the poly-aided Gr. I.

"Utter Mediocrity" Darn! Unfortunately her promotion will ensure we won't find out how capable she is or isn't.

[NTamm1215]

I don't think Little Belle is much but at least she's shown up in every race in which she's been entered. Perhaps she was able to trade decisions with Proud Spell because of the Polytrack but at least LB wasn't one of the dozens who has been atrocious on Poly.

Who would have thought the Busher would have brought forth two graded stakes winners less than 3 months after it was run? The funny part about that race is that Love Co was a heavy favorite and she was last found wiring NY bred N2X stalwarts like Twistaway and Reyana's Jet.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

"Utter Mediocrity" Darn! Unfortunately her promotion will ensure we won't find out how capable she is or isn't.

So, you have a built in excuse......if she runs well she's the good horse you think she is and if she runs poorly it's Godolphin's fault.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Acoma may be a LOT better than people are giving her credit for.

If I play this race, I think that will be the direction I go if the price is halfway decent.
Her last race - which was her first on a fast dirt track since her debut - was a significant improvement over her previous efforts on poly and the slop, and she still won both of those races too. I don't really like the 2f stretchout, but at least the pedigree is right for it.
I know there isn't usually a lot of value on a horse with a 3-race winning streak, but with two G1-winning daughters of AP Indy in here, there might be in this case. I think she looks competitve.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm not buying the Music Note hype.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not buying the Music Note hype.

I don't know what to make of her yet. Her races this year have both been nice wins but with small fields and easy trips both times.
Of course, with a small field and a favorable post again this time, it seems like she might get the exact same trip and run the exact same race she did in the Mother Goose.
As I said earlier though, I think Acoma looks competitive with the entry and might be worth the play here.

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So, you have a built in excuse......if she runs well she's the good horse you think she is and if she runs poorly it's Godolphin's fault.

I am not sure why everyone is so "utterly" down on her. She has run 5 times this year. Against some very good company. She has been apart of the exacta each time with three wins. Maybe her figures don't look like the best but I am not saying she is the best by any means. She always shows up and runs well on different surfaces and different tracks. Horses that always show-up and run well are bound to score on occasion (be it by luck, trip or whatever). And game horses like her in the stretch make for exciting racing.
But I'm not looking for an excuse. Not at all. And I am not saying she is the best. But I am saying she is far from "not much" and "utterly mediocre". She's got over $500,000 this year so far. I wish I owned a mediocre horse like that.
I don't think she will run well at all tomorrow. I'll be surprised if she hits the board. But on her best day, I think she'd be close but I don't think she can match the best of the division on their best day. If that makes her "not much" or "utterly mediocre" to some, so be it. Unfortunately I think they are running her just to ensure an honest pace for Music Note. They seldom, ever, run horses against each other.
I have spoke about Godolphin before. While I think Sheik Hamden has the best interests of the game at heart, his Brother, Sheik Mo, tends to do all sorts of things that only deter a good horse from developing further. Barrier Reef, Day Pass, Etched, Unbridled Heart and on and on. So, really not an excuse.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

I am not sure why everyone is so "utterly" down on her. She has run 5 times this year. Against some very good company. She has been apart of the exacta each time with three wins. Maybe her figures don't look like the best but I am not saying she is the best by any means. She always shows up and runs well on different surfaces and different tracks. Horses that always show-up and run well are bound to score on occasion (be it by luck, trip or whatever). And game horses like her in the stretch make for exciting racing.
But I'm not looking for an excuse. Not at all. And I am not saying she is the best. But I am saying she is far from "not much" and "utterly mediocre". She's got over $500,000 this year so far. I wish I owned a mediocre horse like that.
I don't think she will run well at all tomorrow. I'll be surprised if she hits the board. But on her best day, I think she'd be close but I don't think she can match the best of the division on their best day. If that makes her "not much" or "utterly mediocre" to some, so be it. Unfortunately I think they are running her just to ensure an honest pace for Music Note. They seldom, ever, run horses against each other.
I have spoke about Godolphin before. While I think Sheik Hamden has the best interests of the game at heart, his Brother, Sheik Mo, tends to do all sorts of things that only deter a good horse from developing further. Barrier Reef, Day Pass, Etched, Unbridled Heart and on and on. So, really not an excuse.

a shiek is a shiek they are all the same

[Holland Hacker]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm not buying the Music Note hype.

When have you EVER bought into a "Hyped" horse?

That's why we love you, you're always looking to beat the hype!!

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

But I am saying she is far from "not much" and "utterly mediocre". She's got over $500,000 this year so far. I wish I owned a mediocre horse like that.

While I think Sheik Hamden has the best interests of the game at heart, his Brother, Sheik Mo, tends to do all sorts of things that only deter a good horse from developing further. Barrier Reef, Day Pass, Etched, Unbridled Heart and on and on. So, really not an excuse.

Ah yes, the old "horse has earned X amount, I'd like to own a 'mediocrity' like that and so would you" argument that proves.. Nothing.

And what did Godolphin do with Unbridled's Heart that "deterred him from developing further"?

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Ah yes, the old "horse has earned X amount, I'd like to own a 'mediocrity' like that and so would you" argument that proves.. Nothing.

And what did Godolphin do with Unbridled's Heart that "deterred him from developing further"?

I sorta don't know what to make of all this. If someone disagree's with a certain line of thinking they are "classic" cases and are focused on to look foolish as ateamstupid suggests here. I thought the game was great because you can never understand it totally. That there is always more to learn. If that is true, than how can anyone be so absolute about their thinking?
And A-Team, if you want to take Unbridled's Heart out of my point please do. Then if you still think I am wrong, well maybe I am. But maybe I'm not. But if you think I am wrong about Godolphin, tell me why. Don't pick one single aspect out and tell me to defend my entire argument. I am just surprised that the handicappers who are very good and knowledgable, including you Steve, think nothing of jumping on someone's thinking. I thought this would be a place where my handicapping could improve and I could learn from you guys. But I really don't want to have to take a load of **** to get there.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Handicappy

I sorta don't know what to make of all this. If someone disagree's with a certain line of thinking they are "classic" cases and are focused on to look foolish as ateamstupid suggests here. I thought the game was great because you can never understand it totally. That there is always more to learn. If that is true, than how can anyone be so absolute about their thinking?
And A-Team, if you want to take Unbridled's Heart out of my point please do. Then if you still think I am wrong, well maybe I am. But maybe I'm not. But if you think I am wrong about Godolphin, tell me why. Don't pick one single aspect out and tell me to defend my entire argument. I am just surprised that the handicappers who are very good and knowledgable, including you Steve, think nothing of jumping on someone's thinking. I thought this would be a place where my handicapping could improve and I could learn from you guys. But I really don't want to have to take a load of **** to get there.

Truthfully, I don't know enough about the Barrief Reef, Day Pass or Etched situations to opine on whether you're right or wrong there. You still haven't answered how Godolphin's management of Unbridled's Heart proves your point. You decided to use him as an example, you should be able to back it up, no?

If I make a point, I expect someone to question me if I'm making a weak argument (as Andy, mainly, usually does so wonderfully). I think you're taking this too personally. I thought your arguments were flimsy as to why Little Belle was a good horse and how Godolphin has been mismanaging their three-year-olds, so I called you on it. Feel free to do the same to me.

[blackthroatedwind]

Part of the problem is that Little Belle was trained by Kiaran McKlaughlin and you are excessively biased towards his barn. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.