Gulfstream: Carding of races?

[justindew]

Is anyone else surprised that Gulfstream carded the War Pass "race" and another 6-horse field as part of the Pick 4?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by justindew

Is anyone else surprised that Gulfstream carded the War Pass "race" and another 6-horse field as part of the Pick 4?

A better question would be " would we be surprised if they hadn't? "

Their decisions are confusing.....to be nice.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by justindew

Is anyone else surprised that Gulfstream carded the War Pass "race" and another 6-horse field as part of the Pick 4?

I can see pairing the War Pass race close to the FOY, but they really should have swapped the 8th out of the late races.

Both races are scratched down to 5 runners.

Can Paco Lopez be stopped in the last race? Amazing how many races he, Junior Alvarado and even Rey-Rey Fuentes have been blowing up at the meet.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I can see pairing the War Pass race close to the FOY, but they really should have swapped the 8th out of the late races.

Both races are scratched down to 5 runners.

Can Paco Lopez be stopped in the last race? Amazing how many races he, Junior Alvarado and even Rey-Rey Fuentes have been blowing up at the meet.

My best bet of the day is that a $.50 superfecta War Pass/Web Gem/all/all pays no worse than a $3 cold exacta

[jballscalls]

i'll bet a lot of people hung around after the fountain of youth to see him race. the longer they are on track, more they are likely to bet, and maybe just as important, the more they are likely to stay and eat and drink.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by jballscalls

i'll bet a lot of people hung around after the fountain of youth to see him race. the longer they are on track, more they are likely to bet, and maybe just as important, the more they are likely to stay and eat and drink.

And by that thinking, if War Pass had run in the 4th race people might have shown up earlier, and stayed just as long because the Fountain of Youth would have been the 10th instead of the 9th.

Gulfstream has repeatedly shown a lack of understanding of placement of races for Pick-4 and Pick-6 wagering. Today was no exception.

You would think if the wizards at Gulfstream were actually concerned about attendance and concessions that they would've scheduled the Fountain of Youth and the War Pass work on Saturday.

[philcski]

I think we all know what the problem is... THEY HIRED THE RACING SECRETARY FROM THISTLEDOWN!!!! That's like looking for the next Johan Santana in a beer league softball game.

[jballscalls]

Originally Posted by philcski

I think we all know what the problem is... THEY HIRED THE RACING SECRETARY FROM THISTLEDOWN!!!! That's like looking for the next Johan Santana in a beer league softball game.

everyone has to start somewhere dont they?? Johan Santana was in the minor leagues once wasnt he??

[philcski]

Originally Posted by jballscalls

everyone has to start somewhere dont they?? Johan Santana was in the minor leagues once wasnt he??

Absolutely, but he's writing cards like he's STILL at Thistledown. Part of stepping up is adapting to the situation you're in... and in this case it's carding ridiculous 10k maiden claimers just to "increase field size" (as per his proclamation at the beginning of the season.) I can ASSURE you... a competitive 8 horse allowance field is eminently more bettable than a 12 horse maiden claimer. Additionally, knowing that the late pick 4 is your higest multirace wager, if at all possible shuffling the uncompetitive races out of it like they do in Cali makes a lot of sense to increase handle.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by philcski

Additionally, knowing that the late pick 4 is your higest multirace wager, if at all possible shuffling the uncompetitive races out of it like they do in Cali makes a lot of sense to increase handle.

But the last race in So. Cal is often a 12 horse indecipherable maiden claimer? Field size is the biggest driver of handle.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by philcski

Absolutely, but he's writing cards like he's STILL at Thistledown. Part of stepping up is adapting to the situation you're in... and in this case it's carding ridiculous 10k maiden claimers just to "increase field size" (as per his proclamation at the beginning of the season.) I can ASSURE you... a competitive 8 horse allowance field is eminently more bettable than a 12 horse maiden claimer. Additionally, knowing that the late pick 4 is your higest multirace wager, if at all possible shuffling the uncompetitive races out of it like they do in Cali makes a lot of sense to increase handle.

Phil they only have X number of decent horses.. For whatever reason there aren't the horses to fill the type races we would like to see. So isn't better to get a Honda salesman then a Mercedes if all you have is Honda's on the lot?
There is Saratoga, Delmar, and to some degree Keeneland.. After that it's thistle city Baby..

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Phil they only have X number of decent horses.. For whatever reason there aren't the horses to fill the type races we would like to see. So isn't better to get a Honda salesman then a Mercedes if all you have is Honda's on the lot?
There is Saratoga, Delmar, and to some degree Keeneland.. After that it's thistle city Baby..

You could not be more wrong.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You could not be more wrong.

That sounds like a challenge.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You could not be more wrong.

Are you suggesting that there are a ton of allowance types and no races to but them?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Are you suggesting that there are a ton of allowance types and no races to but them?

There are plenty of horses available to fill better races than Gulfstream cards in general and it is specifically because they are giving away less purse money that cheaper races dominate the cards.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There are plenty of horses available to fill better races than Gulfstream cards in general and it is specifically because they are giving away less purse money that cheaper races dominate the cards.

Oh I get it Pletcher/Shug/Zito/Mott/ etc. aren't running there horses because they don't want them to race for 39k vs. 48k for 2 second level allowance. Now I understand. So is this like a work slow down by toll takers?

Imagine this conversation...." Mr White its your owner Phil X is 123 Laser going to run soon.. Sorry Phil the purse is to small I am just going to charge you 100 a day training and keep him in the stall till Keeneland or worse till Calder re open..Thx Mr White have a great day your training fees and vet expense check is in the mail"

Challenge accepted.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Phil they only have X number of decent horses.. For whatever reason there aren't the horses to fill the type races we would like to see. So isn't better to get a Honda salesman then a Mercedes if all you have is Honda's on the lot?
There is Saratoga, Delmar, and to some degree Keeneland.. After that it's thistle city Baby..

I think that's wrong.

Gullfstream can card as many grass MSWs as well as grass Allowances as they want. They do not need to card races for $10k claimers to make a turf race go.

They had a very big purse overpayment last year due to slots revenue being 1/3 of projected and are recouping. They didn't have that excuse last year and carded tons of cheap turf races then so that has limited validity.

Maybe this year's excuse is the Florida-bred only races they have to card which I think was part of the deal to open up full simulcasting at Gulfstream when Calder is running.

I think there are tons of MSW types both turf and dirt avaiable. It's not as if every trainer is dying to wait two months for the chance to luck into a field at Keeneland when staying on turf is questionable.

The only other plausible reason that makes any sense is they want to save some decent grass racing for the last 2-3 weeks of the meet to keep quality up and a few more good barns around. That would make some sense which means it's probably not their strategy.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I think that's wrong.

Gullfstream can card as many grass MSWs as well as grass Allowances as they want. They do not need to card races for $10k claimers to make a turf race go.

They had a very big purse overpayment last year due to slots revenue being 1/3 of projected and are recouping. They didn't have that excuse last year and carded tons of cheap turf races then so that has limited validity.

Maybe this year's excuse is the Florida-bred only races they have to card which I think was part of the deal to open up full simulcasting at Gulfstream when Calder is running.

I think there are tons of MSW types both turf and dirt avaiable. It's not as if every trainer is dying to wait two months for the chance to luck into a field at Keeneland when staying on turf is questionable.

The only other plausible reason that makes any sense is they want to save some decent grass racing for the last 2-3 weeks of the meet to keep quality up and a few more good barns around. That would make some sense which means it's probably not their strategy.

First it was the purses are to cheap and now there plenty of horses dying to get into allowance or MSW fields but aren't because they arent carding them..oh

So Cpt. Thistledowns aka the racing sec. is doing this to save money and piss off the big stables who have supported GP for ever.. I am crystal clear..Thx