Handicapping 101 - "wraps"

[GPK]

If I may steal from Hooves for a moment...

How much does one consider wraps on a horse when handicapping?

Case in point for me would be this past Thursday's 6th race at Tampa. It was a straight 6,250 claimer, 4 & up, going 6 furlongs. BARNEY SMITH (#4 horse) was being bet to heavy favoritism. He seemed, IMO, the most logical winner. He was in good formand and he was coming off 2 nice wins (the last at the same 6,250 level) and good 2nd place his 3rd race back. He figured to get the pace he needs to close into, so that just confirmed to me he would be very tough to deny. I decided to try and make money on him by keying him in a couple exactas. I played 2 tickets. 4/5,6 and then a little heavier on a 4/8. After I made my bets, there was still a couple minutes left before post. As I watched the post parade, I noticed that Barney Smith had both front and back wraps. I took it as a sign that maybe something had gone wrong and he might not be feeling as well as he had in his last few races. I decided to cancel my tickets. Turned out to be the right decision as Barney Smith ran 5th.

What if you are handicapping this race as the middle leg or last leg of a pick3 and you don't have the luxury of seeing him in a post parade before placing your bet? On paper and on form, he could have been a solid single...before seeing that he had back wraps. Then he becomes a play against, IMO.

[Bigsmc]

Where do they list back wraps in The Form? I thought they only listed fronts. The "b" is for blinkers, or I have no clue and am a total moron.

Wraps are a non issue with me. Joe Handicapper doesn't know why they are being worn. It could be as simple as track condition. If a horse tends to run down on a sloppy track he may have wraps on all four legs when he normally wears none. This isn't any cause for alarm. "We" don't ever know why they are wearing wraps (unless you can speak to the trainer directly) so I don't concern myself with them.

Now, they announced Syndicate Road was wearing a bar shoe in yesterday's 3rd and I immediately tossed him. He ran 8th at 7-2....

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Where do they list back wraps in The Form? I thought they only listed fronts. The "b" is for blinkers, or I have no clue and am a total moron.

Wraps are a non issue with me. Joe Handicapper doesn't know why they are being worn. It could be as simple as track condition. If a horse tends to run down on a sloppy track he may have wraps on all four legs when he normally wears none. This isn't any cause for alarm. "We" don't ever know why they are wearing wraps (unless you can speak to the trainer directly) so I don't concern myself with them.

Now, they announced Syndicate Road was wearing a bar shoe in yesterday's 3rd and I immediately tossed him. He ran 8th at 7-2....

Ok....so I don't know how to read a form. Im the total moron. Dont know why I was thinking the B on the left side of weight carried was for blinkers.

God, I need a new hobby...


Mi es muy el stupido

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

The "b" is for blinkers, or I have no clue and am a total moron.

you are right on the first part - not sure about the second.


As for the thread - when you are dealing with claimers - it's never a bad idea to know the stats of trainers when adding or removing bandages.

Sometimes you'll find trainers who have a pattern of adding fronts with class droppers and posting impressive stats with that move. For other trainers, that move will produce results markedly below their overall numbers.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

you are right on the first part - not sure about the second.

You can take that second one to the bank....

Is there a place that has the wrap stats or do you keep those yourself?

[pmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

you are right on the first part - not sure about the second.


As for the thread - when you are dealing with claimers - it's never a bad idea to know the stats of trainers when adding or removing bandages.

Sometimes you'll find trainers who have a pattern of adding fronts with class droppers and posting impressive stats with that move. For other trainers, that move will produce results markedly below their overall numbers.

Very good point. Found this out the hard way when I attempted to use addition of wraps as downgrade in my capping once upon a time. Decided I don't know enough to take into heavy consideration.

Only time I really use it now is when I see they come on and correspond with a downturn in form. I don't necessarily look for those to bounce right back.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Depends on the condition of the race for me - in claiming races, I ignore it.
It's an ancient trick in the claiming game to add them in the hopes you may fool a potential claimant into believing there may be something wrong thus keeping a horse that you don't want to lose. I don't pretend to know to what degree this happens, or how successful it is, but fairly certain that it's enough to make it a non issue.

To look at Kev's example:
>>>Thursday's 6th race at Tampa. It was a straight 6,250 claimer, 4 & up, going 6 furlongs. BARNEY SMITH (#4 horse) was being bet to heavy favoritism. He seemed, IMO, the most logical winner. He was in good formand and he was coming off 2 nice wins (the last at the same 6,250 level) and good 2nd place his 3rd race back. He figured to get the pace he needs to close into, so that just confirmed to me he would be very tough to deny.<<<

The horse is prime claim bait - sound as a board, gives a solid, even account of himself every time out, obviously likes to win, and handled the same company by 5 lengths last out even going 5 wide in the stretch to do so. The owner can either move him up to 8 and struggle with the competition ( or there may not have been an 8 written) , or keep him at the same level knowing that there would be eyes on him at the claim box. Put on fronts, and hope it's enough to disuade folks to spend their 6250.00 someplace else.

I think he just threw in a clunker of a race, but on the positiive side for the owner, this sets up for another run at the level without much interest in him...

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

You can take that second one to the bank....

Is there a place that has the wrap stats or do you keep those yourself?

there are places - the simplest one might be in the sheets in Thoro-Graph's redboard room.

There, in the sheets, you can find bandages off - bandages on stats., as well as with claimers dropping in class - and with claimers up in class stats.

However, they don't keep stats of the two of them tied together.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by GPK

Ok....so I don't know how to read a form. Im the total moron. Dont know why I was thinking the B on the left side of weight carried was for blinkers.

God, I need a new hobby...


Mi es muy el stupido

The big 'B' stands for bute. A little 'b' stands for blinkers and a little 'f' stands for front wraps.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

there are places - the simplest one might be in the sheets in Thoro-Graph's redboard room.

There, in the sheets, you can find bandages off - bandages on stats., as well as with claimers dropping in class - and with claimers up in class stats.

However, they don't keep stats of the two of them tied together.

Didn't think both stats together were available. Thanks for the info.

[pointman]

As far as I know, the DRF will tell you if the horse was wearing front wraps in the past races, but there is not a notation as to whether the horse is wearing them today. When playing a pk4 you obviously don't see the horses in the last three legs until after you have bet. Drugs, does the T-graph indicate whether the horse is wearing them today or just in the past?

The turkey wraps at Churchill are mediocre at best.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by pointman

Drugs, does the T-graph indicate whether the horse is wearing them today or just in the past?

I'll answer for him, they indicate the opposite of last time. So if the horse was wearing fronts last time, then they would note the percentage of 'removing bandages', if he had no fronts last time, they would note the percentage of 'adding bandages'

An example:

Kickin N Screamin on Tuesday, she had zero fronts last time. Out of 22 instances that Chuck has added bandages, he won almost 14% and was ITM for 32%......

[AeWingnut]

if wraps are actually needed then it is a bad thing. IMO. Some trainers always use them as a preventative measure. I didn't bet a horse because i saw wraps were added and neither did anyone else. Horse wires the field at 30-1. Guess everyone thought he was sore and would back up. Never happened.

[philcski]

The best wraps story I've ever heard at the legendary John St. OTB...

"Smarty Jones can't win the Derby because his front wraps will get heavy in the slop"



I don't pay much attention to wraps. If anything, it seems like wraps on is a win-now proposition by most trainers.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by philcski

The best wraps story I've ever heard at the legendary John St. OTB...
"Smarty Jones can't win the Derby because his front wraps will get heavy in the slop"



I don't pay much attention to wraps. If anything, it seems like wraps on is a win-now proposition by most trainers.

I can't believe that you would retain anything that is said in that den of iniquity.

[MaTH716]

I must be standing in the wrong part!