Stud fees...

[Cannon Shell]

http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41319

http://breeding.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41303

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Exchange Rate more than Point Given???

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Exchange Rate more than Point Given???

PG is pretty nice at $15k

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Horse Chestnut at 5k looks like a bargain too

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I was a huge Exchange Rate fan, and it looks like he is faring well at stud.

Do you have any in your barn? What do you make of his stud career to date?

I have not had any but they seem to run. I liked him better at 10k naturally...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Horse Chestnut at 5k looks like a bargain too

Can get you a racehorse but is a hard sell in the yearling or 2 yo market

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Exchange Rate more than Point Given???

supply and demand. PG not doing so well....

[Cajungator26]

Surprised that Smarty Jones is still at 100k.

[PPerfectfan]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Though I suppose it's impossible to "know" when it comes to breeding, I am surprised at Point Given's stud career.

Now that I think of it, though, are there any Baffert trained horses who are successful at stud?

Didnt Baffert have Forsestry?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

supply and demand. PG not doing so well....

He is actually doing fine. He was the 4th leading 2nd crop stallion and is currently 6th on the 3rd crop list directly under none other than Exchange Rate. The problem was that his stud fee was unrealistically high to start considering his size and breeding. Also with the Prince getting killed, the TB Corp was mostly sold off along with a lot of good mares that may have been bred to him. They (3 Chimneys) knew they were in trouble from the start and aggressively marketed him to second tier mares on foal share agreements. He should have started at 40000 but he began at 125000 and has slid down from there. He also tends to get clunky looking horses which does not help either.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Surprised that Smarty Jones is still at 100k.

I'm surprised anyone would give that for him after seeing his yearlings

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Why?

The few babies that I've seen of his haven't been all that impressive although they've been selling well. I guess it would be too early for his fee to drop now, but I'll be interested to see how fast his babies are.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is actually doing fine. He was the 4th leading 2nd crop stallion and is currently 6th on the 3rd crop list directly under none other than Exchange Rate. The problem was that his stud fee was unrealistically high to start considering his size and breeding. Also with the Prince getting killed, the TB Corp was mostly sold off along with a lot of good mares that may have been bred to him. They (3 Chimneys) knew they were in trouble from the start and aggressively marketed him to second tier mares on foal share agreements. He should have started at 40000 but he began at 125000 and has slid down from there. He also tends to get clunky looking horses which does not help either.

So you're into the conspiracy, eh?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Isn't the second -- or is it the third -- stud season when a sire is "in the bubble?"

You know, I'm not certain, but I believe it's the 2nd season. The first year's crop normally goes for more inflated prices as it is highly anticipated.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

The few babies that I've seen of his haven't been all that impressive although they've been selling well. I guess it would be too early for his fee to drop now, but I'll be interested to see how fast his babies are.

They really did not sell well at all. Virtually all the weanling pinhooks lost money, in some cases big money. There were a ton of RNA's that had little interest and the 2nd highest selling colt at $600k was a phony sale as it was bought by his breeder. Very few people who paid 100k for his services made out well.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

So you're into the conspiracy, eh?

Strange circumstances + Middle East = conspiracy

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They really did not sell well at all. Virtually all the weanling pinhooks lost money, in some cases big money. There were a ton of RNA's that had little interest and the 2nd highest selling colt at $600k was a phony sale as it was bought by his breeder. Very few people who paid 100k for his services made out well.

You know better than I do... I only read into what Three Chimney's posted:

“Smarty Jones’ foals towered over the progeny by other 2006 first-crop sires with a median of $270,000 for eight sold, which is nearly $100,000 more than second-ranked Medaglia d’Oro’s strong median of $175,000 for 21 sold. By average price, Smarty Jones has a smaller but still substantial lead. His $275,625 average is nearly $60,00 higher than that of second-place Speightstown.”

In the same issue of MarketWatch, it was reported that the Second Leading North American Sire by 2006 Median Weanling price was Dynaformer with a median of $300,000 for five sold and the Third Leading Sire by Median was Smarty Jones with eight sold for a median of $270,000. Next closest were Empire Maker ($220,000 median) and Elusive Quality ($210,000 median).

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

You know better than I do... I only read into what Three Chimney's posted:

“Smarty Jones’ foals towered over the progeny by other 2006 first-crop sires with a median of $270,000 for eight sold, which is nearly $100,000 more than second-ranked Medaglia d’Oro’s strong median of $175,000 for 21 sold. By average price, Smarty Jones has a smaller but still substantial lead. His $275,625 average is nearly $60,00 higher than that of second-place Speightstown.”

In the same issue of MarketWatch, it was reported that the Second Leading North American Sire by 2006 Median Weanling price was Dynaformer with a median of $300,000 for five sold and the Third Leading Sire by Median was Smarty Jones with eight sold for a median of $270,000. Next closest were Empire Maker ($220,000 median) and Elusive Quality ($210,000 median).

It is mostly just BS. MDO was probably the biggest surprise. He had a lot of nice horses

[philcski]

For bargain basement, the Durings I saw at the sale looked very good.

As for Smarty Jones, I may have been his biggest fan on track. Seriously. But his yearlings have been just so-so looking, then again he was rather plucky looking... until they opened the gates.

Point Given may end up like Pleasant Tap, ignored because his offspring take time to mature. Think the same thing will happen with Rock Hard Ten.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Yes. He was favored in the 1999 BC Sprint at Gulfstream off of his win the King's Bishop.

And he has been successful in the marketplace.

Baffert made his name mostly with moderately bred horses, so most of his top colts were not really expected to be top stallions. While he's hardly "elite" Indian Charlie has hardly disgraced himself and poor homely Real Quiet has several G1 winners even though he's now in Pennsylvania.


With rare exception the sales establish the stud fee far more that actual racing performance. PG has not lived up to the expectations of many but he's hardly a disaster. His current fee is about right because "saleswise" his HAS been a disaster. Unless a stallion jumps out very fast and continues to build on that success, like Distorted Humor, any give stallion is likely to see his fee decrease by season 3. The other "non sales" exception is a breakout season like the one Smart Strike has had this year.