If you're not a horse then maybe you're a rabbit

[blackthroatedwind]

So Spanish Chesnut is nominated to the JCGC?

Either he's a potential rabbit for Dylan Thomas or they just figured he was too damn good for the Vosburgh.

[Bystander]

what a Killjoy.

[tycharles01]

Thanks to
1st_Saturday_in_May


Beldame

Balletto (UAE)
Fleet Indian
Friel's for Real
Happy Ticket
Miss Shop
Pool Land
Round Pond
Spun Sugar
Sweet Symphony
Take D'Tour
Teammate

JCGC

A.P. Arrow
Andromeda's Hero
Awesome Twist
Bernardini
Commentator
Dylan Thomas (Ire)
Invasor (Arg)
Master Command
Premium Tap
Second of June *RIP*
Spanish Chestnut
Sun King
Wanderin Boy
West Virginia

[tycharles01]

If there is a rabbit in the JCGC might affect Bernardini more than Invasor I think

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by tycharles01

If there is a rabbit in the JCGC might affect Bernardini more than Invasor I think

Yep, I agree. But only if SC runs like a rabbit this time.

[blackthroatedwind]

I guess considering the Coolmore-Godolphin situation it is hardly surprising Coolmore is thinking of a rabbit in this race.

Perhaps after last year's Woodward debacle the NY stewards might want to read the European rules regarding rabbits.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I guess considering the Coolmore-Godolphin situation it is hardly surprising Coolmore is thinking of a rabbit in this race.

Perhaps after last year's Woodward debacle the NY stewards might want to read the European rules regarding rabbits.

Believe the debacle with the rabbit was in last year's JCGC, no? Flower Alley pressed his own rabbit pretty much throughout.

[blackthroatedwind]

No it was the disgraceful exhibition put on by Dutrow in the Woodward, using two rabbits who were separate betting interests from Saint Liam, and intentially trying to impede Commentator. But, I guess some people will do anything to win.

On the other hand, he didn't break any rules...it's just that the rules themselves are broken.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

No it was the disgraceful exhibition put on by Dutrow in the Woodward, using two rabbits who were separate betting interests from Saint Liam, and intentially trying to impede Commentator. But, I guess some people will do anything to win.

On the other hand, he didn't break any rules...it's just that the rules themselves are broken.

I agree, I don't fault Dutrow one bit for what he did in that race, pretty smart if you ask me. I would do the same damn thing...

I guess I'm in the camp that thinks its smart to run a rabbit in the JCGC. Coolmore has a horse with a closing kick, and they are willing to pay the nomination and starting fees to insure one.
Where exactly is the rule that is written that says need the lead/speed types should never face any adversity in their races?
Bull****. The reason many of them reel off winning streaks is that noone wants to bang heads with them early, because they are all afraid they will stop and get no purse money. They all just suck along and try to get place and show money and the speed horse rolls.
Wanna know what a DISGRACE IS???? A disgrace was the Dubai Escapade race up here where several other horses like Stormy Kiss had early speed and all of em grabbed like sumo wrestlers so as to avoid a duel, and just sucked along while Dubai bounded free and clear in moderate fractions that others in the field had regularly set or attended.
BULL**** to the notion that a rabbit is not fair to anyone. Give me a break please. If Dr fager could suffer the "indignity" of a rabbit, than anyone else who ever sets foot on a track can.
I love the whole notion that because either Dutrow or Coolmore does it then it is wrong, but if you do it to Dr Fager its ok.
I for one, am tired of witnessing grade one races where jockeys are given orders to grab and not contest the favorite so as not to "burn up" the mount and allow the favorite to just roll away unmolested.
Holy Bull had a rabbit thrown at him in the Travers and proved his greatness by winning anyway.
Smarty Jones got absolutely tortured by Bailey and Solis in the Belmont.
At what point did Commentator and Bernadini become exempt from what Holy Bull, Dr. fager, and Smarty Jones were forced to endure.
If Bernadini is indeed a superhorse, then some adversity should not be a problem.
You'll never see me crying because a 2-5 shot never gets contested during a race and is allowed to walk to the half mile pole.

Originally Posted by Scav

I agree, I don't fault Dutrow one bit for what he did in that race, pretty smart if you ask me. I would do the same damn thing...

Don't you get it yet Scav?
There is a sector out there that feels if a guy wears suits every day and speaks with great respect and dignity to the press that he is a "fine horseman" and is above the notion of anything wrong.
But if you don't follow those rules, and aren't real good at tossing trainerspeak bull**** at the media, and sucking up to them, then you aren't a horseman. You are just a lucky guy who is cheating.
Thats how it works out there.
I'd love to show you the list of guys I think have cheated in the last ten years, and all of them have suits on and speak trainerspeak very well. How do you think they avoided getting accused by the media?
If you don't do that, you are basically annointed as the Devil walking on earth.

[blackthroatedwind]

I don't see anyone disputing the value or fairness of rabbits. Certainly they are used constantly in European races and, as you mentioned, they have been used in the US at different times.

The problem in the Woodward was twofold. First of all the rabbits were neither owned by the same people that they were helping and they were a seperate betting interest than that horse. It is one thing to look to help yourself and another for different owners to effectively gang up on another horse in a given race. Once again, this was not Dutrow's fault, it was the fault of the track and the powers that be for allowing this situation to occur. If nothing else, the owners of Saint Liam should have bought at least a partial interest in both rabbits prior to the race. The second situation was, IMO, Dutrow's fault, and that was the manner in which the rabbits were ridden. It is one thing to ensure an honest pace, or even duel a speed horse into submission if that one is unable to rate, but an entirely different thing to look to physically intimidate another competitor. Any unbiased view of the head-on shot down the backstretch would have trouble defending the notion that the two rabbits were ONLY trying to ensure a fast or honest pace that day.

[Betsy]

[quote=tycharles01]If there is a rabbit in the JCGC might affect Bernardini more than Invasor I think[/QUOTE

Bernardini is not a speed horse by choice, so Spanish Chestnut's presence will not hurt him. It may help him - he's probably better with a target.

[ateamstupid]

I'd love to say this doesn't bother me as a Bernardini fan, but I'd be lying, because I didn't like how anxious he was for the first quarter-mile or so of The Travers.

With that said, it could've just been a reaction to High Cotton and Bluegrass Cat pinballing him in the first 100 yards.

I still think Mr. Deen rolls by open lengths, just because he's the best dirt horse in the world and he's rated successfully before, but this worries me a tad.

[Cajungator26]

[quote=Betsy]

Originally Posted by tycharles01

If there is a rabbit in the JCGC might affect Bernardini more than Invasor I think[/QUOTE

Bernardini is not a speed horse by choice, so Spanish Chestnut's presence will not hurt him. It may help him - he's probably better with a target.

LOL... we shall see, Betsy. I will officially shut my mouth about Bernardini if he wins the JCGC. I will jump on the bandwagon. Until then... nah.

[tycharles01]

Should be fun to see how they run Bernardini tho, no doubt he rather be up front either leading or right up with the leader. Could finally see the armor come apart!!!Invasor on the other hand prolly would not mind being in mid pack with a big chance to close. This is a great idea just not enough to take out both of the big names

[Scav]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Don't you get it yet Scav?
There is a sector out there that feels if a guy wears suits every day and speaks with great respect and dignity to the press that he is a "fine horseman" and is above the notion of anything wrong.
But if you don't follow those rules, and aren't real good at tossing trainerspeak bull**** at the media, and sucking up to them, then you aren't a horseman. You are just a lucky guy who is cheating.
Thats how it works out there.
I'd love to show you the list of guys I think have cheated in the last ten years, and all of them have suits on and speak trainerspeak very well. How do you think they avoided getting accused by the media?
If you don't do that, you are basically annointed as the Devil walking on earth.

I get it, when I pick a trainer, I want my guy to be wearing boats, have some dirt on his chin and hate suits, he better like to party too because I will be like the guy that owned Major Rhythm, half of Arlington drank for free when he won the Stars and Stripes

[Pointg5]

Too bad Sun King's not running, if they get going fast he might have rolled on past them...

Maybe, they can find a horse to be Bernardini's bodyguard, he could run right next to him and keep others from brushing him and then when he starts walking on water the escort would just let him go...Probably hard to find another horse that can breathe the same air as Bernardini though...

Sometimes these rabbits screw everything up, at least it will be an interesting race...

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pointg5

Too bad Sun King's not running, if they get going fast he might have rolled on past them...

Maybe, they can find a horse to be Bernardini's bodyguard, he could run right next to him and keep others from brushing him and then when he starts walking on water the escort would just let him go...Probably hard to find another horse that can breathe the same air as Bernardini though...

Sometimes these rabbits screw everything up, at least it will be an interesting race...

LMFAO!

[Scav]

Spanish Chesnut is going to win the race by 10, please buy my tout sheet