How bad has Aidan O'Brien been in America?

[NTamm1215]

In the wake of the flops by Viscount Nelson and Master of Hounds, I thought it was worth taking a look at how absolutely dreadful Aidan O'Brien has been in America going back to High Chaparral's dead heat in the 2003 Breeders' Cup Turf. During that period O'Brien is 3-67 in the US (4%) with a $0.58 ROI. He is currently winless since 2006 in turf races in the US and winless in dirt races in the US all the way back to Johannesburg's win in the 2001 BC Juvenile. His 3 winners during this stretch were Powerscourt in the 2005 Arlington Million, Aussie Rules in the 2006 Shadwell Turf Mile and Man of Iron in the 2009 BC Marathon.

What's particularly amazing is that his horses keep getting bet relentlessly by the public and it will almost certainly happen in this year's Breeders' Cup.

[randallscott35]

To me he is just generally overrated altogether.

[PatCummings]

Don't forget about the masterful job of having Soldier of Fortune pace press his own rabbit in the 2008 BC Turf.

[randallscott35]

He read his own press clippings.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Don't forget about the masterful job of having Soldier of Fortune pace press his own rabbit in the 2008 BC Turf.

Couldn't that be more of a case of jockey being a moron?

[Seattleallstar]

The Irish Billionaires/Tabor guys are better leaving their horses here with Simon Callaghan, Drysdale, and Pletcher. At least Arabs in the royal blue colors know well enough to leave their horses with Rick Mettee in New York, and not have them ship all the way back to Europe or Dubai

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

The Irish Billionaires/Tabor guys are better leaving their horses here with Simon Callaghan, Drysdale, and Pletcher. At least Arabs in the royal blue colors know well enough to leave their horses with Rick Mettee in New York, and not have them ship all the way back to Europe or Dubai

The difference with Coolmore and Godolphin is that outside the BC Classic, Turf, and Mile, you don't really see Coolmore bring out any of their big guns to the States anymore. Certainly horses like Viscount Nelson and Master of Hounds are useless at the top class level over in Europe. Their entrants in the Juvenile Turf races were minor leaguers. Even Powerscourt was a second stringer.

In other instances, some of these shippers seem to be on display for private purchase. O'Brien has won the Canadian International twice in the last decade and both horses (Ballingarry, Joshua Tree) were sold soon after.

O'Brien's record here is atrocious, but it's not completely shocking as it seems like they're throwing crap against the wall intentionally, hoping it will stick.

[pointman]

It amazed me that anyone could bet Master of Hounds. Then again, it amazed me that anyone could bet Ruler on Ice. Even at 24-1, Ruler on Ice was a massive underlay.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by pointman

It amazed me that anyone could bet Master of Hounds. Then again, it amazed me that anyone could bet Ruler on Ice. Even at 24-1, Ruler on Ice was a massive underlay.

I got to admit Nick, I used him and envisioned him getting the trip that Stay Thirsty got. Breaking from the inside and getting that ground saving stalking trip.
With all that happened with Animal Kingdom at the start, it kind of got overlooked that Master of Hounds broke a step slow and seemed to really never get into the race flow.

[Thunder Gulch]

I'm somewhat surprised that the Coolmore guys haven't done better in the Breeders Turf races, but of O'Brien's 67 starters, many were shot in the dark attempts on dirt for those bloodlines that never run on the stuff.

[slotdirt]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I got to admit Nick, I used him and envisioned him getting the trip that Stay Thirsty got. Breaking from the inside and getting that ground saving stalking trip.
With all that happened with Animal Kingdom at the start, it kind of got overlooked that Master of Hounds broke a step slow and seemed to really never get into the race flow.

Is it fair to say that the 15 length gap between Animal Kingdom and Mucho Macho Man was the gap between horses who grabbed the track and those who didn't? Or was it really more of a gap between the top six and six others who aren't much.

Not related to Master of Hounds directly, though I'm starting to believe he's in the "aren't much" category.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The difference with Coolmore and Godolphin is that outside the BC Classic, Turf, and Mile, you don't really see Coolmore bring out any of their big guns to the States anymore. Certainly horses like Viscount Nelson and Master of Hounds are useless at the top class level over in Europe. Their entrants in the Juvenile Turf races were minor leaguers. Even Powerscourt was a second stringer.

In other instances, some of these shippers seem to be on display for private purchase. O'Brien has won the Canadian International twice in the last decade and both horses (Ballingarry, Joshua Tree) were sold soon after.

O'Brien's record here is atrocious, but it's not completely shocking as it seems like they're throwing crap against the wall intentionally, hoping it will stick.

This is a really good post.

I do understand your point about Powerscourt but I still can't agree (only slightly though).

He was only at a certain level but he hit the board in so many Group 1s...

Had some very very nice 2nd place finishes... Prince of Wales's Stakes (G1), Scottish Derby, Grosser Dallmayr-Preis Bayerisches Zuchtrennen (G1), 3rd in the Irish Champion and in the BC Turf.

Won the Gold Cup at the Currugh... he ran in Hong Kong, Munich, at Lone Star and Arlington, in Tokyo...

Technically he won the Million twice...

I do see your point but I'd consider him pretty damned close to a top level horse.

Oh and it's really easy to say well I'd never use so and so or who won't hit the board but I'm in the same boat as the people who tossed Master of Hounds completely for both races.

I'm a fan of AOB and all but ummmm no that one had zero shot and I didn't understand the supporters and their reasoning but hey I didn't exactly have the winner eaither, so...

As an aside for any fans of Joshua Tree (Beethoven as well)? THey seem to like Qatar.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I'm somewhat surprised that the Coolmore guys haven't done better in the Breeders Turf races, but of O'Brien's 67 starters, many were shot in the dark attempts on dirt for those bloodlines that never run on the stuff.

Roughly 25% were dirt starters.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The difference with Coolmore and Godolphin is that outside the BC Classic, Turf, and Mile, you don't really see Coolmore bring out any of their big guns to the States anymore. Certainly horses like Viscount Nelson and Master of Hounds are useless at the top class level over in Europe. Their entrants in the Juvenile Turf races were minor leaguers. Even Powerscourt was a second stringer.

In other instances, some of these shippers seem to be on display for private purchase. O'Brien has won the Canadian International twice in the last decade and both horses (Ballingarry, Joshua Tree) were sold soon after.

O'Brien's record here is atrocious, but it's not completely shocking as it seems like they're throwing crap against the wall intentionally, hoping it will stick.

I really agree, and to add to the logic, think that if AOB is sending horses out of Ireland, England, or France, they really aren't all that magnificent. If they come here and do damage, it's really an afterthought for the most part. If they run in the Arc and still have something left in the tank, then off to the BC Turf. They might bring a rabbit or something to try and set their horse up, but almost none of them run with the long-term intent that the Breeders' Cup is THE goal.

Remember, for the most part in Europe, the prime racing is over by the middle of October (save one meeting at Newmarket late in the month). Otherwise, everything gears down and the steeplechasing begins in earnest. And considering they don't say anything heads-or-tails about their horses, no one can ever decipher anything from the camp. They have to beat me before I even start considering betting them in the US.

[Travis Stone]

I always felt that most of their horses for the BC were either the obvious second or third string, or the top string taking one more chance at a good pot... w/out ever being "pointed" to the BC.