The 3-year-old males

The Indomitable DrugS · #1 02-05-2011, 10:13 PM

The crop looked very solid coming in - and every week for about the last two months there's a nice new prospect coming along.

Runflatout and Cal Nation are too far behind to do anything in the triple crown series ... but some memorable racing will come from this division if runners keep coming and enough of them hold up.

randallscott35 · #2 02-05-2011, 10:17 PM

Curlin debuted around this time

NTamm1215 · #3 02-05-2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Curlin debuted around this time

And they should do the exact same thing with Cal Nation, that is sending him to Arkansas. The 3YOs in Arkansas are not a deep group at all and he would become an instant contender in the Rebel next month.

The Indomitable DrugS · #4 02-05-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Curlin debuted around this time

Curlin - he most certainly isn't.

RockHardTen1985 · #5 02-05-2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The crop looked very solid coming in - and every week for about the last two months there's a nice new prospect coming along.

Runflatout and Cal Nation are too far behind to do anything in the triple crown series ... but some memorable racing will come from this division if runners keep coming and enough of them hold up.

Who is the new prospect your most excited about? Now and long term.

The Indomitable DrugS · #6 02-05-2011, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Who is the new prospect your most excited about? Now and long term.

A lot of them are dubious in that they will probably be sprinter/milers and aren't good bets to develop.

The Factor and Runflatout both ran extremely fast at Barretts at age 2 ... the latter is Sadler and by a sire who is a son of A. P. Indy so there could be a whole lot of horse there. He'll get that one to route.

Betsy · #7 02-05-2011, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

A lot of them are dubious in that they will probably be sprinter/milers and aren't good bets to develop.

The Factor and Runflatout both ran extremely fast at Barretts at age 2 ... the latter is Sadler and by a sire who is a son of A. P. Indy so there could be a whole lot of horse there. He'll get that one to route.

I like Flatter, but how many of them route? Apart and who else? Mostly he sires sprinters - also, Runflatout's dam is by Grand Slam, I believe, which hardly inspires confidence that he will route. The Factor probably is a sprinter/miler

RockHardTen1985 · #8 02-06-2011, 12:12 AM

I think Cook Inlet will be OK. He scratched on Thursday, not sure why. Hopefully he is doing alright. The Runflatout race will turn out to be a good race IMO. The Baffert wins next time out and a few of the also rans are going to be OK.

jpops757 · #9 02-06-2011, 06:04 AM

I like several that are now comming to the front but remember the monster they are chasing. Mos next will be interesting, Does he continue to improve? If he does all are far behind. We always anoint one as the horse but he deserves it.

freddymo · #10 02-06-2011, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

And they should do the exact same thing with Cal Nation, that is sending him to Arkansas. The 3YOs in Arkansas are not a deep group at all and he would become an instant contender in the Rebel next month.

Winstar had a half a dozen that all got hurt last year any chance they keep one friggin decent horse on the track the entire year?

Betsy · #11 02-06-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757

I like several that are now comming to the front but remember the monster they are chasing. Mos next will be interesting, Does he continue to improve? If he does all are far behind. We always anoint one as the horse but he deserves it.

Not even just Uncle Mo - all the newbies are getting the attention, to the point where the better horses from last year are getting completely overlooked, as if it's not possible that last year's 2 year olds have improved and are also very talented. Out of sight, out of mind?

Danzig · #12 02-06-2011, 08:53 AM

not sure why there's surprise that new horses are getting mentioned. it happens every spring, with media and fans jumping from horse to horse, from week to week. besides, many top horses from last year will be caught and passed by their peers. always fun to watch it all unfold.

Betsy · #13 02-06-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

not sure why there's surprise that new horses are getting mentioned. it happens every spring, with media and fans jumping from horse to horse, from week to week. besides, many top horses from last year will be caught and passed by their peers. always fun to watch it all unfold.

No surprise and this year it really is a promising crop, with newbies seemingly popping up every day, but until we see that an Uncle Mo or To Honor and Serve or even a Boys at Toscanova haven't improved, isn't it premature to talk about them being surpassed (not that you are saying it, but it's being implied in some corners)? Some of these newcomers being mentioned have beaten up on bad fields and may never (or they may) pass the class test.

Danzig · #14 02-06-2011, 10:23 AM

why wouldn't some imply it? isn't boys at toscanova out of training right now? or am i confusing him with someone else? as for the others, until they debut, they're a mystery. two year old form doesn't mean a whole lot now. it's a brand new season.

Betsy · #15 02-06-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

why wouldn't some imply it? isn't boys at toscanova out of training right now? or am i confusing him with someone else? as for the others, until they debut, they're a mystery. two year old form doesn't mean a whole lot now. it's a brand new season.

I know that, but who's to say that these newcomers are going to be any good given that some of them have beaten mediocre allowance fields or straight maidens? I just think it's premature to have some of these newbies leapfrogging some horses that have at least proven their class. For me, until the horses from last year prove they haven't progressed, they shouldn't lose their spots on Derby lists to horses that are also unproven in some way.

Danzig · #16 02-06-2011, 10:48 AM

a horse that hasn't run in months doesn't necessarily deserve to remain on any list either. this is very much a sport of what have you done lately. i for one would prefer more attention be placed on runners; anyone can claim to have talent in the barn. was shaking my head while reading the other day about horses with two planned starts before the derby. that's pathetic.
i wish they'd change the earnings system to get in the derby. remove 2 yo graded earnings from consideration, that would bring out the runners!

Betsy · #17 02-06-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

a horse that hasn't run in months doesn't necessarily deserve to remain on any list either. this is very much a sport of what have you done lately. i for one would prefer more attention be placed on runners; anyone can claim to have talent in the barn. was shaking my head while reading the other day about horses with two planned starts before the derby. that's pathetic.
i wish they'd change the earnings system to get in the derby. remove 2 yo graded earnings from consideration, that would bring out the runners!

I respect your opinion, but I can not agree with replacing some of the very top 2 year olds from last year with allowance/maiden winners from this year...

As to the 2 starts, well those are the plans for Uncle Mo and THAS. I can't speak for Uncle Mo, but I trust Bill Mott to know what's best for his horse. Its' not like he won't run the horse this year, unlike Godolphin, who keeps their horses in the barn half the year and plans campaigns that last maybe 3 starts.

Danzig · #18 02-06-2011, 02:28 PM

who said anything about replacing? lol you put too much stock in derby lists and rankings. especially at this point in the year. i'm talking about the coverage of these horses in general.

as for mott, he only plans on two starts because he's got the money. i don't buy that it's best for the horse. best for the horse to have a minimum two losses i guess.
i don't think it's best for the sport either. but it seems all the top trainers with the best of the best stock are stuck in this mindset. has nothing to do with training, ability, etc. has to do with protecting the supposed monetary value of a horse, and not wanting to risk a loss.
makes me wonder why it's still called horse 'racing'. i think it stinks, which is no slur on bill mott-but a huge indictment of this sport, which is slowly committing suicide.

Betsy · #19 02-06-2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

who said anything about replacing? lol you put too much stock in derby lists and rankings. especially at this point in the year. i'm talking about the coverage of these horses in general.

as for mott, he only plans on two starts because he's got the money. i don't buy that it's best for the horse. best for the horse to have a minimum two losses i guess.
i don't think it's best for the sport either. but it seems all the top trainers with the best of the best stock are stuck in this mindset. has nothing to do with training, ability, etc. has to do with protecting the supposed monetary value of a horse, and not wanting to risk a loss.
makes me wonder why it's still called horse 'racing'. i think it stinks, which is no slur on bill mott-but a huge indictment of this sport, which is slowly committing suicide.

I think it's more like trainers are afraid of being past their peak by the time the Derby comes around - I can't blame them for that. I agree in general that horses need to race more, but I don't have a problem with 2 preps for the Derby. There's more to racing than the Derby or the Triple Crown. In terms of THAS, he's clearly going to run as a 4 year old so he won't be retiring anytime soon due to anything other than illness or injury. How would you prefer his schedule to have gone? Run in the Holy Bull, FOY and then FLA Derby?

RockHardTen1985 · #20 02-06-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

I think it's more like trainers are afraid of being past their peak by the time the Derby comes around - I can't blame them for that. I agree in general that horses need to race more, but I don't have a problem with 2 preps for the Derby. There's more to racing than the Derby or the Triple Crown. In terms of THAS, he's clearly going to run as a 4 year old so he won't be retiring anytime soon due to anything other than illness or injury. How would you prefer his schedule to have gone? Run in the Holy Bull, FOY and then FLA Derby?

I agree with you as far as THAS. He already has rolled going 9f, and as a 2yr old he has been more then fast enough. Its Motts job to keep him moving forward, and have him ready. Its different with all horses, but a fast horse who already has won going 9f, I have no problem with 2 preps. I got him as the horse to beat, and I cant wait for him to run back.