Breeding

jpops757 · #1 08-11-2006, 10:08 AM

Lots of info about breeding in here as to who is the best and/or best value. I have a couple of what some of you might consider a dumb question. What is the latest in the year a top outfit will concider breeding there top mares and if they wait to late do they consider a lesser stalion to produce a latter colt. When in the year is it best to wait and get an eary cover by a quality stud. I guess what Im askig s does a highly bred colt born after Sept have any value at sale? What signafance does the month of foal have and with each preceding month how does the value go down?

#2 08-11-2006, 10:19 AM

Um im not sure I understand your question but the sheds are open from February to July. The universal "birthday" for all thoroughbreds is January 1st of their foaling year, so the concept is to have the mare foal as close to the January 1st date without giving birth before that. For example, if a mare foals on Dec. 31 st, then the next day, Jan 1st, that foal would be considered one year old.

And the September part of your question is throwing me. The only thoroughbreds that will foal any where near September are those who are breeding for sport horses... not race horses.

#3 08-11-2006, 10:20 AM

the mare's gestation is 11 months
so the idea to to have her "in foal"
so the period of gestation coincides with the early part of the year
as you know all turn 1 on 1/1
so the ones born earlier have maturity on their class

Downthestretch55 · #4 08-11-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757

Lots of info about breeding in here as to who is the best and/or best value. I have a couple of what some of you might consider a dumb question. What is the latest in the year a top outfit will concider breeding there top mares and if they wait to late do they consider a lesser stalion to produce a latter colt. When in the year is it best to wait and get an eary cover by a quality stud. I guess what Im askig s does a highly bred colt born after Sept have any value at sale? What signafance does the month of foal have and with each preceding month how does the value go down?

jpops,
I don't think you questions are dumb at all. I'm no expert, but i'll try to answer.
Figure eleven months gestation, and breed the mare so that she foals a close to Jan 1st as possible. So a late Feb cover is the way to go.
Unfortunately, here in NY, the day length (which triggers the estrus cycle) doesn't happen until March, April. The latest? Maybe June or July.
One of my mares has had difficulty conceiving on her first cover. So, the added expense to get her in foal, including vet visits, hormones, all has to be figured.
A Sept colt? Geesh, that's a tough one. Though he's only four months old, he be a yearling on Jan 1st as that's when they all have their "birthday".
So my guess would be to figure extra year of keep until he's ready to do his job.
I hope this answers for you.
DTS

jpops757 · #5 08-11-2006, 11:19 AM

I understand about the birthday. What im asking is when is the latest a top operation will consider a top mare give birth or just wait for a cover to produce a birth in the first 1/3 of the year? Would the stud fee be discounted for a cover rusulting in a birthing in the last half of the year?

Cajungator26 · #6 08-11-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757

I understand about the birthday. What im asking is when is the latest a top operation will consider a top mare give birth or just wait for a cover to produce a birth in the first 1/3 of the year? Would the stud fee be discounted for a cover rusulting in a birthing in the last half of the year?

I'm not sure how each operation works, but if they only cover mares from February to July, I would say the answer would be no...

#7 08-11-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpops757

I understand about the birthday. What im asking is when is the latest a top operation will consider a top mare give birth or just wait for a cover to produce a birth in the first 1/3 of the year? Would the stud fee be discounted for a cover rusulting in a birthing in the last half of the year?

July is the absolute latest a top outfit will breed. If a mare is covered in July then the baby will be born in June or maybe in late May. If you look at past Ky Derby winners, the majority are born in March/April. This is why you will see tons of fillies racing in the summer while in foal. Now wagering on a horse that is in foal is not a bad angle at all. Also you will see some of the top fillies retiring in March/April in order to get them into the shed in time to be covered.

#8 08-11-2006, 11:47 AM

July is it... I believe the unofficial closing date is July 1st... although if your mare has been bred but hasnt caughter they would extend it a week or so if you agreed. Most people would rather skip a year and breed the mare early next year, than have a late foal.

slotdirt · #9 08-11-2006, 12:07 PM

So I'm guessing Second of June was a mistake?

Cajungator26 · #10 08-11-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

So I'm guessing Second of June was a mistake?

I would venture to say that his dam was a little late in having him.

#11 08-11-2006, 12:12 PM

Yes, he was born late which is why they gave him the name Second of June. I also believe it was the birthday of the mother of the owner as well.

#12 08-11-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I would venture to say that his dam was a little late in having him.

Well all know that women are never on time. I have to female employees and they are always 3-6 minutes late.

#13 08-11-2006, 12:18 PM

3 to 6 minutes? lol do you time them or something? goodness. lol

Downthestretch55 · #14 08-11-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

July is the absolute latest a top outfit will breed. If a mare is covered in July then the baby will be born in June or maybe in late May. If you look at past Ky Derby winners, the majority are born in March/April. This is why you will see tons of fillies racing in the summer while in foal. Now wagering on a horse that is in foal is not a bad angle at all. Also you will see some of the top fillies retiring in March/April in order to get them into the shed in time to be covered.

Euro,
I'm really not disgreeing with you, as I also think running a mare early in her pregnancy is ok. But you know that fillies fresh off the track (March/April) might not cycle right away. Of course, it depends on the filly, but sometimes it takes a few months for her system to wind down from the rigors and for her system to rid itself of the "medications", if you know what I mean.
Just my two pennies worth.

#15 08-11-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Euro,
I'm really not disgreeing with you, as I also think running a mare early in her pregnancy is ok. But you know that fillies fresh off the track (March/April) might not cycle right away. Of course, it depends on the filly, but sometimes it takes a few months for her system to wind down from the rigors and for her system to rid itself of the "medications", if you know what I mean.
Just my two pennies worth.

Yeah I agree. I should have mentioned that in my post. Thanks as always DTS.

Thoroughbred Fan · #16 08-11-2006, 02:57 PM

I'll also add that you don't decide when she gets in-foal. You try like hell with lights, meds, teasers, and a good experienced breeding shed manager to get her in-foal at the right time. There are things like follicles involved which are parts of a horse I don't think they use for racing. Other factors, would include her inner bits working well, how well the previous birth went, how late in the year it is, getting on the particular studs calendar, and if you are shipping the recent foal as well (weather), etc.

For a top mare I would think that late May is as late as you would go and you would never breed her to a lesser stallion simply because of the date. Most stud farms stay open later in the year because of demand. But you can bet Juddmonte isn't going to be breeding Toussaud in June. They'd prefer to skip the year, let her rest and get January foal by whichever top stallion they choose. You make very educated guesses as to which lines will cross well and you stick to them. If you own a top mare, you are not at all concerned with the stud fee.

Danzig · #17 08-11-2006, 05:56 PM

it can be tricky tho with an older mare regarding skipping a season...they may not come into season the next year. so maybe a late cover would be advisable, just to ensure less trouble the following year.

Danzig · #18 08-11-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Yeah I agree. I should have mentioned that in my post. Thanks as always DTS.

the main problem seems to be that fillies are often kept on 'birth control' so they don't come into heat while racing, that could cause HUGE problems in the shed row at the track.

paisjpq · #19 08-11-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig188

the main problem seems to be that fillies are often kept on 'birth control' so they don't come into heat while racing, that could cause HUGE problems in the shed row at the track.

the other problem is when fillies are given exogenous testosterone...those girls don't want to be mothers

Danzig · #20 08-11-2006, 06:13 PM

well no wonder they have mustaches than.....