KEE Pick 6 Refunds

[pmacdaddy]

Now I'm really confused with the pk 6 ruling - http://cristblog.drf.com/crist/

Did they pay out to scratched runners for 6/6? Still not real clear.

[Scav]

Is this not jacked up...So if people threw out their ticket they are screwed? And what are they going to do with people that played it online?

Byk, GET THEM ON THE SHOW, we want answers..

From Keeneland's website;

Notice Regarding Refund of Pick Six Tickets on Wednesday, April 16
April 17, 2008
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All patrons with non-winning tickets using No. 2 (Colin’s Princess) and/or No. 3 (Reachforthecastle) in the first leg (race four) of Keeneland’s Pick Six on Wednesday, April 16, are entitled to a refund under the rules of the bet. Both horses were scratched at the gate before wagering on the Pick Six closed. Conflicting information was communicated Wednesday and patrons have been unable to receive a refund.

Patrons holding tickets with Nos. 2 and/or 3 in the first leg should take their tickets to an information window at Keeneland or to the simulcast outlet where the tickets were purchased. If preferred, patrons can mail tickets--making copies for their records—to the Mutuel Department, Keeneland Association, P.O. Box 1690, Lexington, Kentucky 40588-1690.

Keeneland’s Pick Six rules have been amended to substitute the post time favorite for a scratched horse in any leg of the Pick Six. The rule change is effective immediately.

Keeneland apologizes for any confusion or inconvenience this situation may have caused.

[Bigsmc]

So, we weren't reading the Scratch Rule on their website incorrectly after all...

Crist's Blog brings up the obvious question. How are they going to go about this?

Scavs, you're right. The people with paper tickets that ripped them up will be howling. I would imagine a vast majority of P6 players are hanging on to their tickets for tax purposes though and the people that played on line obviously have a record of the wager.

[herkhorse]

Is this for on track tickets only? I was payed for 5 of six, getting the 7 horse for the 2 in leg one.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Is this for on track tickets only? I was payed for 5 of six, getting the 7 horse for the 2 in leg one.

In their attempt to clear the matter up, they made it murkier.

It reads as if it may only be on track, but that can't be. If you refund, you need to refund everyone, on or off track. I wagered through an ADW and would enjoy a refund (found money), but I will not hold my breath....

They can't take back the money already paid out, so any type of refunding they do will come directly out of their pocket. I applaud them for trying to make it right, but this release is not clear enough.

At least we will know going forward how a scratch in the first leg will be handled.

[Split Rock]

How? How in the world can there be any confusion regarding such an obvious and likely situation? I mean, shouldn't this have been thought out and very clear many years ago? It's not like horses don't get scratched at the gate every single day.

Very surprised there is any level of confusion here.

[Scav]

I just got off the phone with Jim Goodman, at Keeneland, in regards to this matter.

First off, the guy was very nice and a pleasure to speak to. We even spoke about the handle being down (asked MY opinion ) but that is another topic.

He has been in contact with the ADW's in regards to this matter, was actually speaking to them via email while talking to me. The issue is with this is that Keeneland is doing all this manually because all the tickets have been essentially 'closed' and can not be reopened. So, if I understood what he was saying, Keeneland is able to pull tickets from each ADW and figure out what they will be refunded. It is then up to the ADW to refund the customer. (I can't wait to see how this handled by some of these invilates(?))

If you have a paper ticket, from ALL OVER the country, Jim said it was best to make copies of the ticket, and mail it to the below address, and that refunds will be processed in a timely manner (hopefully in 7-10 business days)

Keeneland Association
PO Box 1690
Lexington, KY 40588-1690
Attn: Mutuals

Put note in envelope, along with ticket, stated this is in regards to P6 issue, from April 17th.

[pmacdaddy]

Did they pay 6/6 to the scratched runners?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

Did they pay 6/6 to the scratched runners?

YES!! This is going to cost them some dough. If you had the 2/3/7 on your ticket, then you hit for 54k and didn't realize it until the teller handed you a check with alot more then 18k-taxes on it....

[pmacdaddy]

I'm sure they didn't pay out more than the total pool amount upfront.

Does this mean if you had the "real winner" and not any scratches you got shorted because they paid out to scratched runners (not consistent with rules in place)?

I would think the entire pool less refunds would be a higher payout then what happened (skipping refunds and splitting pot 3 ways).

[Scav]

Originally Posted by pmacdaddy

I'm sure they didn't pay out more than the total pool amount upfront.

Does this mean if you had the "real winner" and not any scratches you got shorted because they paid out to scratched runners (not consistent with rules in place)?

I would think the entire pool less refunds would be a higher payout then what happened (skipping refunds and splitting pot 3 ways).

To your 2nd part, yes, I would think so, the math works out that way, because if you had the 2, it is really the 7, so there are more winning tickets that way.

[justindew]

Which is worse? This, or when someone makes a bet from Laurel on a race at Fair Grounds, the bet never goes through because of a computer glitch, and Laurel never makes an announcement informing all bettors that they are entitled to a refund? The only person who ever hears about this is the person at Laurel with a winning ticket who tries to collect, and is instead told he gets a refund because the bet was not accepted by Fair Grounds.

FYI, I am using Laurel and Fair Grounds as an example. But this kind of thing has happened before.

[Bigsmc]

I e-mailed my ADW this morning and got the following response, which is consistant with Scav's conversation with Mr. Goodman today:

This error has been brought to our attention, we are in the process of complying a list of effected members to provide refunds to. Please allow 72 hours before you see the adjust made to your wagering account.

[Bigsmc]

Refund received this afternoon:

On Wednesday, April 16th, 2008 you placed a wager(s) on the Pick 6 at Keeneland. Due to the scratches in the first leg of the Pick 6, you were entitled to either a full refund or partial refund according to Keeneland’s rules. Therefore, we have gone ahead and positively adjusted your account for the amount due from the refund.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Refund received this afternoon:

Great news Big Mike....

I have to admit I am VERY surprised that the ADW's did it so quickly.

[herkhorse]

so to recap: if you used the 2 or 3, the ptf was substituted on winning tickets, and if you had a losing ticket, you were refunded. correct?

I also noticed that Keeneland never displayed the will pays prior to the last race, Is that unusual?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

so to recap: if you used the 2 or 3, the ptf was substituted on winning tickets, and if you had a losing ticket, you were refunded. correct?

I also noticed that Keeneland never displayed the will pays prior to the last race, Is that unusual?

Correct....

Not sure on the will pay situation. The P6 isn't as popular a wager in KY as in California so they don't focus on it like other tracks do