Late Scratches in Pick 4s

[Holland Hacker]

Does NYRA make any refunds on the pick four when there is a late scratch in a leg of the pick 4 before the START of the pick 4?

I copied this from the NY State Racing & Wagering Board Rules.

Section 4011.26

"(f) Scratched horses and nonstarters. At any time after wagering begins on the pick four pool, should an entire betting entry or field be scratched or declared a nonstarter in any pick four race, no further tickets selecting such betting entry or field shall be issued, and wagers upon such betting entry or field, for purposes of the pick four pool, shall be deemed wagers upon the betting entry or field (designated horse) upon which the most wagering money has been registered at the track in the win pool at the close of win pool betting for such race. (In the event of a money tie, the tied betting entry or field [with the lowest program number] upon which the most wagering money has been registered at the track in the place pool at the close of place pool betting for that race shall be designated.) Wagers in the pick four pool upon an entry or field of horses from which a starter or starters may have been scratched will, in the case of such entry or field, be deemed wagers upon the horse or horses remaining in such entry or field; except at tracks with totalizator capability to record wagers selecting a coupled entry (or field) and wagers selecting any individual constituent horses therein (merging such wagers for odds display and payoff purposes), in which case, the wagers upon scratched constituent horses will be deemed wagers upon the "designated horse" in such race. In case no starter remains representing any betting entry or field, wagers upon such entry or field shall be deemed wagers upon the "designated horse" in the race affected by the scratch. Should the balance of a betting entry or field race as a nonbetting starter for purposes of other pari-mutuel pools, as provided in sections 4009.20 and 4009.21 of this Part, wagers upon such entry or field shall be deemed wagers upon the "designated horse" for such race. Should a programmed starter be scratched or declared a nonstarter in any pick-four race prior to the start of the first leg, the betting operator shall be authorized to refund any tickets designating betting entries affected thereby prior to such first leg."

It is my understanding that NYRA does not make refunds on a pick 4 or pick 6 wagers if there is a late scratch in a leg even if it is announced before the start of the first leg. For example last Friday I had Bar City as one of my selections in the first leg and he wound up being a late scratch. I read the program and it basically said that you get the favorite in the event of a late scratch in a pick 4 or pick 6 and didn't differentiate between a late scratch before the first leg or other legs. I think there should be refunds if there is a late scratch before the first leg of pick 4. or pick 6. It seems that the Rules give the track the ability to refund the wagers in this case, unless I'm reading the rule incorrectly.

Anybody have any thoughts or comments on this?

[MisterB]

You answered it in your bold type. They will give you a refund if the late scratch is in 1st leg only.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by MisterB

You answered it in your bold type. They will give you a refund if the late scratch is in 1st leg only.

I've never seen them actually do that though. I'm pretty sure they give you the chalk no matter what.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I've never seen them actually do that though. I'm pretty sure they give you the chalk no matter what.

I did it Sunday. You get the chalk in any of the other legs.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by MisterB

You answered it in your bold type. They will give you a refund if the late scratch is in 1st leg only.

So you are saying that if you take your ticket to the teller before the first leg goes off they will give you a refund, otherwise you get the favorite?

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

So you are saying that if you take your ticket to the teller before the first leg goes off they will give you a refund, otherwise you get the favorite?

NO, if your horse is a late scratch in the 1st leg, you get a refund. If your horse is a late scratch in any of the other legs, you get the post time Fav.

[Ronnie]

Yes I agree with what you are saying but Holland Hacker obviously did not get a refund, that is why he is here.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Holland Hacker

Does NYRA make any refunds on the pick four when there is a late scratch in a leg of the pick 4 before the START of the pick 4?

I copied this from the NY State Racing & Wagering Board Rules.

Section 4011.26

"(f) Scratched horses and nonstarters. At any time after wagering begins on the pick four pool, should an entire betting entry or field be scratched or declared a nonstarter in any pick four race, no further tickets selecting such betting entry or field shall be issued, and wagers upon such betting entry or field, for purposes of the pick four pool, shall be deemed wagers upon the betting entry or field (designated horse) upon which the most wagering money has been registered at the track in the win pool at the close of win pool betting for such race. (In the event of a money tie, the tied betting entry or field [with the lowest program number] upon which the most wagering money has been registered at the track in the place pool at the close of place pool betting for that race shall be designated.) Wagers in the pick four pool upon an entry or field of horses from which a starter or starters may have been scratched will, in the case of such entry or field, be deemed wagers upon the horse or horses remaining in such entry or field; except at tracks with totalizator capability to record wagers selecting a coupled entry (or field) and wagers selecting any individual constituent horses therein (merging such wagers for odds display and payoff purposes), in which case, the wagers upon scratched constituent horses will be deemed wagers upon the "designated horse" in such race. In case no starter remains representing any betting entry or field, wagers upon such entry or field shall be deemed wagers upon the "designated horse" in the race affected by the scratch. Should the balance of a betting entry or field race as a nonbetting starter for purposes of other pari-mutuel pools, as provided in sections 4009.20 and 4009.21 of this Part, wagers upon such entry or field shall be deemed wagers upon the "designated horse" for such race. Should a programmed starter be scratched or declared a nonstarter in any pick-four race prior to the start of the first leg, the betting operator shall be authorized to refund any tickets designating betting entries affected thereby prior to such first leg."

It is my understanding that NYRA does not make refunds on a pick 4 or pick 6 wagers if there is a late scratch in a leg even if it is announced before the start of the first leg. For example last Friday I had Bar City as one of my selections in the first leg and he wound up being a late scratch. I read the program and it basically said that you get the favorite in the event of a late scratch in a pick 4 or pick 6 and didn't differentiate between a late scratch before the first leg or other legs. I think there should be refunds if there is a late scratch before the first leg of pick 4. or pick 6. It seems that the Rules give the track the ability to refund the wagers in this case, unless I'm reading the rule incorrectly.

Anybody have any thoughts or comments on this?

you only get a refund if the scratch was in the FIRST LEG. in the case of Huge City, who was in the last race as an AE, if you used him you got the post time favorite.

a terrible rule i've campaigned against for a long time. consos should be awarded.

[MisterB]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Yes I agree with what you are saying but Holland Hacker obviously did not get a refund, that is why he is here.

If you use a SAM machine, it automatically gives you the credit.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by MisterB

NO, if your horse is a late scratch in the 1st leg, you get a refund. If your horse is a late scratch in any of the other legs, you get the post time Fav.

I'm pretty sure that is not true. If there is a scratch in the PICK 3, 1st leg, you get a refund, other legs you get conso. Pick 4 and Pick 6 I am 99% sure there are no refunds if your horse scratches out of the 1st leg. I also had Bar City in my Pick 4 on Friday, bet it on my OTB phone account, and did not get a credit due to the scratch.

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by philcski

you only get a refund if the scratch was in the FIRST LEG. in the case of Huge City, who was in the last race as an AE, if you used him you got the post time favorite.

a terrible rule i've campaigned against for a long time. consos should be awarded.

Unless the favorite wins and its a huge payout!

[jpops757]

If you dont go to the windows and get it refunded before the 1st race goes off they give you the post time favorite and no refund. Iassumed a refund on a late scarath in the first race was a rufund and dudnt go to the window before the first race and waited until the pk4 was over and didnt get a refund

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by jpops757

If you dont go to the windows and get it refunded before the 1st race goes off they give you the post time favorite and no refund. Iassumed a refund on a late scarath in the first race was a rufund and dudnt go to the window before the first race and waited until the pk4 was over and didnt get a refund

Which is all well and good, but that is not a refund. You can go to the window and cancel your ticket anytime you want (which is basically what you are doing) before the first leg, even when your horse doesn't scratch.