Aqu 1st
 

Anybody see that 20 length form reversal?
I see a lotta accusations about some high profile trainers, but I don't see the guys I read about performing "miracles" like that.

Anybody wanna estimate how many Beyer points she will go up, or how many sheet points she will go down?
I'll start the sheet point bidding at a 5 point lifetime top. Do I hear 6?

Has it occured to you that it is a souped up speed track and that performance was yet another example of a track being responsible for a horse's performance?

But hey, I don't trust anybody, and will certainly pass on your concerns to Roddy Valente, who owned the first winner, next time I see him.

I had the 9 in a $1 exacta with the 2 horse and the 1, 10 and 11.

But more importantly, do you think it is going to be a merry go round today? I am putting together a pick 6 ticket.

I didnt see the race

I loved the turn back in distance on the 9 and the horse has some speed. Once the 9 got the lead I knew it was lights out because of the turn back. But I think we are looking at a track that is going to be speed speed speed.

thanks for the 'illumination. surely noone had give that any thought.

thanks also for the latest insipid name drop. it's been a couple days since your last.

Well, I guess your pal Mike didn't, else he wouldn't have posted his rant. Actually, as far as Roddy is concerned, Mike is the one who has dropped his name around here, I'm just the one who is friendly with him. I was only trying to help your pal Mike in letting him know I would make sure to pass along his concerns. Certainly an owner would want to know if his trainer was cheating.

I'm glad I have increased your limited vocabulary. It warms my heart to know I have helped the needy.

I missed seeing the 2nd race but the 3rd was won from well off the pace. Track seems to be playing reasonable today. The 9 ran much better, but she had shown high speed in her previous 2 starts against slightly better going long then stopped, how is this a shock when she returns to her preferred distance of 6F (perhaps we should call her "One Turn" Halo?)

I would be careful. In the second a hopeless sprinter stretching out just got nailed at the wire by the 6:5 stalker and nobody made up any perceptible ground. In the third it was a contentious, while not super fast, pace, and the rail horse held gamely ( at 13:1 ), though one could make a case she was an overlay, and the winner sat a perfect inside trip behind the duelers, who finished second and third. She was nowhere near " well off the pace ".

It may not be the speedway we saw a week or so ago, and first races can be aberational, but I am not inclined to say the track is anything close to even.

That being said, I like a number of horses later in the card that aren't speed types. Why? Because I'm an idiot and a glutton for punishment.

I think to jump to conclusions based upon one aspect -- in this case "form reversal" and "miracles" -- is a bit myopic. I think Andy brings up the major contributory factor in the track condition.

Now, aside from the # itself -- was this horse not competitive? Sure, not ML favorite or anything of the like. Maybe it's because I know Bruce and Roddy, but you don't have to know them to know that they race horses where they can win -- Period! Another West Coast import, after a couple of starts, etc. I could have seen Bruce going either way after the last race. It would have been aggressive to drop after the last one, but I've seen him do it. Touger with a NY bred.

Eric

To be fair, Eric, without saying it was a bias aided win, it was a pretty tough performance to defend.....especially in relation to the horse's pps.

I guess she wasn't that far back, agreed. Thought the 2 was an overlay as well (these NYB fallowances on the inner are so often crapshoots of manytime-losers.)

If the track is playing fair, the 4, 6, and 12 have a big chance of knocking off this phony even money in the 4th. She's not much more than 1 or 2 lengths better than this group if the track doesn't carry her gate speed she showed in the last.

Also, if the Gravesend is NOT won from off the pace with all that speed in there, I'd be shocked.

Win or lose, Bishop Court Hill is the speed of the speed.

The fourth winner wasn't carrying me on her back this week. I believe the Pick-4 with her was just over $2900 last time she ran. I didn't need any of that.

I think my inital impression was wrong, the rail appears to be the place to be. I liked the 12 a little bit, too bad she got dumped at the start.

A not so crazy bomb for the 5th: the 3, who has absolutely zero early speed but should be closer to the pace here by default with most of these possessing the same trait. Hopefully Norby finds the rail and stays there.

With regards to the first race winner, I had the following "early speed" numbers:

That 10 point advantage for the winner is about 3 lengths at the 1/2 mile call. I wouldn't call this a huge form reversal, just catching a field the horse could beat.

in the 6th the 4 figures to get the lead and the rail under JV. I'll bite.

I'd love to play the 9 at 14-1 (debut was better than it looked, made a nice move on the turn on the outside) but I don't think she can get it done with the post draw and the track condition.

who's mike?

Anyway, thanks as always. Especially for the vocab hints. I don't think mine's bad (I have an IQ over 90; it's been tested!), but it's always a good thing to hear your insights, however indolent they may be.

You mention you're a "glutton for punishment." Hopefully you'll evolve past that 'fear of regret' factor and start passing a few races.

Can't see how you folks can play the A inner now; it's a calvary charge to the inside and every race looks like they're stacked two-deep at the half at Yonkers.

To each his own. Keep up the good work.

Oracle,I remember very well when this guy's father died.It was like the night before the Spring Aqu Meet started last year.So,this guy wasn't around to saddle etc. his own horses.You have no idea the bloodbath that took place in that showdown contest the 1st 3 days of that meet.People were getting blown out of that contest(myself included) because of using this guy's horses when he wasn't around.I think I had 10 tickets to start that contest,and only had 2 left after the 1st 3 days of the meet.Those were some pretty good horses that were running off the board.

Rapid Rickey in the 7th has a chance to wire these...

5/1,2,6,9

YOu do that ok?
My point wasn't to accuse anyone of anything, rather to point out that certain KNOW IT ALLS bring up situations like these and point to certain guys and scream "CHEAT CHEAT"!!!! yet when other trainers win they point to VERY VALID and logical reasons like souped up tracks as the reason.
That was the point of my starting this thread, and the very first response I got was exactly what I was looking for, thanks!!!:)

I've never dropped his name, I've only mentioned that "a local owner" owns a horse.
I know who he is but never see him.
Now, you go back and try and find the post where " I dropped his name" ok?
You are really off your game on this thread.

Scuds,
It was obviously the product of a souped up track, and whenever a route horse cutting back to sprints makes an easy lead, they are very tough to beat. Those weren't exactly great horses.
I didn't bet a quarter on the race, so I really and truly didn't care.
My point in starting the thread was that "someone" might run his mouth and start ranting instead of getting the point I was making.
My point was that big time form reversals happen quite often, Yet only get noticed and fingers pointed at juice when its certain guys.

How " off my game " am I?

Was refuting your original post, which apparently after its utter lunacy has been exposed had some double meaning, " off my game "? Let me guess....Dixie helped you with your response.

Was pointing out that Bishop Court Hill was the speed of the speed in the feature " off my game ". Let me guess further...Dixie called you after the race to tell you that as well?

Mike, constantly mentioning names unnecessarily, which is what you do constantly, is what I find preposterous. Certainly the owner being referred to has had his name thrown around more than once by you. Sorry if I'm not going to peruse your 5000 plus posts to find examples.

" Off my game "? It's always some personal wrestling match with you.

Here's one....post #41 in the " If you're not a horse then maybe you're a rabbit...

No see, its personal with you!!!
I've never "dropped" Roddy's name, nor have I ever said I have spoken to him, etc.
I believe I made a reference to "local owner" having owned Coyote lakes, but am QUITE sure that I said local owner, instead if his name.
No double meaning, just something that iw as trying to point out, as I think "juice paranoia" is out of hand these days, and say so often.
Off your game was not in reference to any selctions you may have made today. Been busy running errands and just got in and only read this thread.
Besides, you couldnt put a gun to my head and make me bet Bishop Court Hill anyways.
Show me teh name dropping on Roddy, I will be waiting.
You sir, are mistaken about that or a flat out liar. I'm assuming its the first.

Beat you to it big guy.

Yeah, so? Thats name dropping? You have to be kidding me. Name dropping is when you mention someone in relation to knowing them. Not stating a fact. I mean, when someone says "johnny V gave a horse a bad ride" is that name dropping>
By the way, you don't set the rules about what i post or how I post it, and Im not particularly interested in your inaccurate version of name dropping.
And you never got back to my original post. How come only certain guys get accused of "juice moveups" when a horse reverses form, and others do.
By that I mean, I never hear anyone stating perfectly logical reasons why a horse own nicely when its a "juice guy".
Are you saying my thought on this has no validity?

Please explain to me how using someones name is name dropping, because quite frankly I've never seen anyone accuse soemone of name dropping when its a public figure and you are stating a fact.
Is that really the best you can come up with? I'm disappointed in you, truly, you can'ty do any better than that.

Breaking news...

I finally won a race today.

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7806

You called him "scotty" you name dropper you!!!!
Give me a berak please. When making reference to someone in the game in an obtuse nondirect manner is not name dropping.
Saying you had lunch with them might be, but making a factual reference is not name dropping.

Congrats!!!
Which race did you win?

Take a time out....seriously.

First you denied ever using his name....challenged me to find an example. I did in seconds. Now, apparently, you are changing your tune again ( Dixie? ). Stop. You incessantly, and needlessly, fill your posts with people's names, most likely to create some sort of feeling that you know these people. Really, we all know it. You can call it name dropping, or whatever, but what it really is is unnecessary.

Wrong Sigmund. And shame on you name dropping a guy who just passed away.
Saying "roddy" sold him would only be interpreted by you as name dropping.
And i wouldn't say saying "scotty" did this or that would be name dropping.
If you wanna set the rules, at leats play by them yourself ok?

9th @ Aqu, ran 2nd 4 times today and was about to throw my program out the window.

2nd race @ 10-1
5th @ 11-1
6th @ 6-1
8th @ 21-1

This is the best you can do?

Here's an idea....let it go. If you think my starting a thread about a notable person in racing passing away, and using his name in that post, is equivalent to your off-hand, and unnecessary, throw-ins of obscure people's names in racing then I guess you're correct here.

Is this really worth perpetuating?

Without question -- the performance, absolutely, which is why I commented you made the point. Aside from the eventual # being bias influenced, and aside from the performance -- I thought the horse, with a bit of a step forward, figured a bit. I did not think the entire field laid over the horse.

Eric

amazing thing was she paid, I think, 5-2. There is a chance she was as high as 4-1 but she was bet like IRON into Capote Belle.

Santos rode her and Drew ( who had his book then ) told me she was VERY good but we were all rightfully afraid of Capote Belle. They had comparable trips, though for some reason I think Danseuse's was tougher, and she drowned her ( like 2 1/2 lengths pretty easily ).

Ok look, I agree this is stupid, but you wanna play etiquette enforcer so...

In this post of your you refer to "drew" who we all know is Mollica.
You name dropper.
I could keep going I suppose, but anyone hwo hangs around the track is gonna say things like this now and then because they know folks.
Need more examples?

Eric, my post was to point out that freak outs by some guys get accusations, and by others none.
I think there is way too much paranoia and emphasis on Juice around here, and get called naive for it.
Freak outs happen.