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-   -   It took less than 24 hours for the nuts to become vocal (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22196)

GBBob 05-04-2008 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost
I remain a PETA member because they alone have the muscle and will-power to speak for the animals world-wide who suffer unbelievable abuse...as Pgardn and others have documented, they do so much good...but the public perception is distorted due to episodes like this! Working in animal rescue, many times I have felt the anger and frustration...so easy to seek blame! This certainly appears to be a tragic event that simply "happened"...blame must take a back seat to sorrow. Do we need to look at whip use in this country? I believe the answer is "yes"...other parts of the world have drastically reduced whip usage without damaging the sport, I think we should also. Surfaces? it's still early but the stats clearly show that while number of injuries remain somewhat constant with poly surfaces (compared to dirt), the number of catastrophic injuries is statistically significantly reduced...we must place horse (and jockey) welfare above handicapping concerns here! So...yes, PETA has valid points here....but attacking this young man is clearly wrong. I agree that PETA is it's own worst enemy many times...but I understand the emotional context from which these actions materialize. There simply is no justification for slaughtering animals in cruel and vicious acts of barbarism, whether it's peasants in Mexico, slaughterhouse employees in Canada, Michael Vick in the US or YUM Brands to produce KFC chicken. Then there is "research" for drug and cosmetic companies...the list of abuses go on seemingly forever. Yes, PETA often behaves badly and I feel "gets it wrong" in regards to racing...but at least they are heard...and someone has to speak up! RIP Eight Belles! My heart goes out to her connections and the brave young man who rode her!
I think many here agree with PETA's message, just not their methods. Do you/can you try and reign in the zealouts who destroy any postive PR you could gain?

Riot 05-04-2008 09:48 PM
PETA is a well-known domestic terrorist organization that has zero interest in helping animals.

Using the donations of those that want to "help animals", PETA primarily funds branches of terrorism that commit arson and murder, specializing in killing civilians and stopping those doing medical research.

somerfrost 05-04-2008 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GBBob
I think many here agree with PETA's message, just not their methods. Do you/can you try and reign in the zealouts who destroy any postive PR you could gain?


I wish it could be...unfortunately the lesson of history is that things never change unless folks raise hell! There are zealots in PETA and, unfortunately, some who lose track of the "big picture" and seek their "15 minutes of fame" at any cost. I wish the message was the focus and not the anger and frustration...but imagine years of seeing unbelievable abuse everywhere while the general public seems completely indifferent. There is an old protest song we sang in the 60's...the lyrics go:
"it isn't nice to block the doorway,
it isn't nice to go to jail,
there are nicer ways to do things,
but the nice ways always fail..."
It's a lesson well learned...often, lines are crossed and it seems more harm is done than good. My faith teaches me, "and ye harm none, do as ye will". I see no benefit in attacking people or generalizing the acts of a few to an entire sport (ie: racing)...but I understand the mindset of those who lash out anytime tragedy strikes. Racing should have had it's greatest day in several decades yesterday as a true star was born and presented to racing's biggest audience...instead, the focus is on the tragic death of Eight Belles. If racing is to survive, those in charge must understand the importance of public perception and find a way to reduce the number of tragic events just as those in charge of PETA would be well advised to temper the emotionality of our message so that the public focuses not on tactics but on the message itself. The huge irony here is that PETA and racing share the problem of negative public perception.

Riot 05-04-2008 09:57 PM
Quote:
I wish it could be...unfortunately the lesson of history is that things never change unless folks raise hell! There are zealots in PETA and, unfortunately, some who lose track of the "big picture" and seek their "15 minutes of fame" at any cost.
Somer, you might want to google "ALF PETA FBI"

somerfrost 05-04-2008 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumtaz
PETA is a well-known domestic terrorist organization that has zero interest in helping animals.

Using the donations of those that want to "help animals", PETA primarily funds branches of terrorism that commit arson and murder, specializing in killing civilians and stopping those doing medical research.

This proves my point! You are entitled to your opinion but wild baseless accusations do little to advance the public discourse...and are an affront to those of us who give of ourselves to try and make a tiny bit of difference. How are you different from PETA at it's worst when you respond like that?

cowgirlintexas 05-04-2008 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by geeker2
I have to say the local paper in San Diego decided it was important to show the filly broken down on the front of the sports page...can't understand why they think showing this is actually newsworthy. There is absolutely no need for these graphic pictures to be included ....very very disturbing...shame on them.
Houston Chronicle decided the same thing. Very disturbing to say the least and not something anyone would enjoy over their morning breakfast. I realize it is news and extremely tragic at that, however, I don't think anyone needs a picture to go with it.

Riot 05-04-2008 10:07 PM
Quote:
This proves my point! You are entitled to your opinion but wild baseless accusations do little to advance the public discourse...
But it's not baseless, nor is it "opinion". It's fact that is there in the public record. You, however, have to read it.

PETA has been around since the early 1980's, when they were formed as the front organization to collect funds from those that want to "help animals", so they could fund the Animal Liberation Front.

somerfrost 05-04-2008 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumtaz
Somer, you might want to google "ALF PETA FBI"
Nothing new....again, hate PETA all you want, the best way to make them "go away" is to speak out against animal cruelty everywhere it occurs...that would make PETA irrelevant.
One last time, I'm not posting to defend PETA...the issues they bring up in this case are valid (whipping, surfaces), going after this young man and using a tragic event to degrade people I respect isn't.

Danzig 05-04-2008 10:12 PM
i wonder how much of the donations to peta go to legitimate rescue organizations and the like, and how much to fund witch hunts such as this. i think we can all do our part to help animals and raise awareness without funding a bunch of ultra-zealous crackpots. there is no middle ground with groups such as this.

somerfrost 05-04-2008 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
i wonder how much of the donations to peta go to legitimate rescue organizations and the like, and how much to fund witch hunts such as this. i think we can all do our part to help animals and raise awareness without funding a bunch of ultra-zealous crackpots. there is no middle ground with groups such as this.
There is always "middle ground" the trick is to find it! Painting with a large brush always colors many folks unfairly, I am not a "ultra-zealous crackpot" and I would love to see a solution that is "nicer"! When name-calling replaces issues, nothing is accomplished.

Riot 05-04-2008 10:34 PM
Quote:
i wonder how much of the donations to peta go to legitimate rescue organizations and the like,
None at all. PETA is still a 501c (although the IRS is probably going to finally pull that status) thus the records they submit are public.

PETA doesn't do any animal rescue, etc.

Riot 05-04-2008 10:35 PM
Quote:
Nothing new....again, hate PETA all you want, the best way to make them "go away" is to speak out against animal cruelty everywhere it occurs...that would make PETA irrelevant.
I spoke out against the PETA folks who adopted local animals from shelters, then killed them and dumped their bodies in dumpsters.

I spoke out against the PETA folks who gave money to ALF to kill human medical researchers.

sumitas 05-04-2008 10:42 PM
PETA has their place in standing up for living mamals. Why can't we get a reason for the breakdown ? The cause of the problem ? Asking for an investigation only makes sense to me and if the jock did wrong he should be suspended.

somerfrost 05-04-2008 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumtaz
I spoke out against the PETA folks who adopted local animals from shelters, then killed them and dumped their bodies in dumpsters.

I spoke out against the PETA folks who gave money to ALF to kill human medical researchers.
We are now going in circles...I'm sorry you feel the way you do but I will not change your mind on a message board. I will continue to support PETA while voicing my concerns and speaking out whenever I feel they cross the lines. I have made my case to the best of my limited ability...we are posting about different topics here...you are anti-PETA and I am not. Discussion of the tragic event ending the life of Eight Belles belongs here, discussion of PETA probably belongs in another section of this board so I apologize for engaging this topic here!

somerfrost 05-04-2008 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
PETA has their place in standing up for living mamals. Why can't we get a reason for the breakdown ? The cause of the problem ? Asking for an investigation only makes sense to me and if the jock did wrong he should be suspended.
I agree that it is important to learn exactly how this tragedy came to be (if that can actually be determined), if there is blame then let it be known...but the important thing now is to respect the grief of those directly involved and try to learn something so hopefully we can prevent further such tragedies in the future. Hopefully, as in the case of Barbaro, something good can come out of this sad event.

Danzig 05-04-2008 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somerfrost
There is always "middle ground" the trick is to find it! Painting with a large brush always colors many folks unfairly, I am not a "ultra-zealous crackpot" and I would love to see a solution that is "nicer"! When name-calling replaces issues, nothing is accomplished.
you've never struck me as being a crack pot, which is why i'm somewhat amazed that you belong to a group that i would classify as such.

as for an investigation, peta has already decided the outcome, saying the filly was 'obviously' injured before the race was over. as for respecting the grief of those involved, peta seems interested in anything but, demanding a jocks suspension and the purse money revoked. yeah, they're full of respect.

sumitas 05-04-2008 11:31 PM
if the facts warrant a suspension or purse return so be it. let's try to determine how this happened, that's the main point. the breeders may escape scrutiny but they should not.

Riot 05-04-2008 11:53 PM
Quote:
as for an investigation, peta has already decided the outcome, saying the filly was 'obviously' injured before the race was over. as for respecting the grief of those involved, peta seems interested in anything but, demanding a jocks suspension and the purse money revoked. yeah, they're full of respect.
Jumping on a free publicity bandwagon has historically always been a sure quick moneymaker for PETA. They love it when animal tragedy falls into their lap and can be exploited for financial gain.

In this next week, PETA will receive many $25 checks from folks that want to help PETA save the poor abused horsies from the evil horseracing industry.

DaTruth 05-04-2008 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitas
if the facts warrant a suspension or purse return so be it. let's try to determine how this happened, that's the main point. the breeders may escape scrutiny but they should not.
Hey, I've got it, since the Arabs make such good fall guys, we should blame them. If they hadn't come to our sales with suitcases full of petrodollars and purchased our best bloodstock and moved them overseas, we would have more durable horses seeking our top 3yo prizes.


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