Yeah...right after they kick Mahr in the nuts for his comments about Cheney!

leave out al franken?....funny, the thread was started to attack an attacker--but when another is named, now let's not go in that direction?! whatever...

calling someone a ****** for instance is completely unnecessary, and certainly does nothing to further dialogue. i can't stand ann coulter, and i really wish they would not give her air time. it's a shame that those with legitimate viewpoints aren't allowed on air, only those who are far right or far left....
and yes, bill mahr is disgusting. to call for the death of an american, just because his thoughts don't jibe with ones own, is despicable.

I had absolutely no problem with what he said. What he said is the sad truth.

Somer, I don't think Franken ever advocated murdering the leaders of soverign nations and converting their leaders forcibly to Christianity. If you would be so kind, please find specifics of things he's said that you find particularly egregious and I'll be happy to find egregious comments by Coulter and you can let me know which you think is worse. I think you'll find it hard to find anything he's said that compares with what comes out of her mouth. Which, I'm sure, is why she gets more press. Americans love a freak show.

Danzig, that's not at all what Maher said- it's what the right-wing media wants you to THINK he said. Here's his actual quote:

Maher: But I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow. (applause)

Scarborough: If someone on this panel said that they wished that Dick Cheney had been blown up, and you didn’t say…

Frank: I think he did.

Scarborough: Okay. Did you say…

Maher: No, no. I quoted that.

Frank: You don’t believe that?

Maher: I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.

Says conseravtive John Cole on balloon-juice, "Saying that X would happen if Y had happened is not the same thing as saying Y should have happened or you wished Y had happened. There is no way around that, even when you selectively quote and remove the jocular context from the program."

Here's the link to Cole's comments on the subject- good reading:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=7944

Franken is a dope and I think it's great he's running for senator, afterall he won't have time to act anymore which is a plus. I love actors they think they know better than the american public, over inflated feeling of self worth. Yeah, you're on TV, in movies, or the theatre....who really gives a $#@ what you think.

Now Mahr didn't advocate murder just agreed if Cheney was dead it'd be a good thing.

Coulter is a dope too....I read this board and it's so evident why nothing ever gets done. It's more important being correct than making the world better. No different than the people on here.

I think you are missing my point....folks on both sides routinely are engaging in what I consider hate speech and personal attacks, I'm not sure what could be gained by judging who is "the worst"...it's all bad...shameful and dangerous! In the 50's...if you disagreed with someone, you accused them of being a Communist and lives were destroyed, Dr King was called all sorts of names and his sex life the subject of J Edgar Hoover's interest (which, considering JEH's lifestyle...well, you know), Malcolm X was called a "terrorist" by mainstream media....go back further in history and folks were tortured and murdered cause someone called them a "witch"...the list is long and all of history contains examples of this folly...rather than debate differences and respect same, attack and accuse....worked for Hitler, Pol Pot and apparently the leaders of Sudan and now Iraq. This nation is becoming more divided every day and the rhetoric more and more vicious...there's a storm coming!!!

Franken's a writer, not an actor. A comedian, too, but I'd mostly classify him as a writer. I think he's really smart.

Though I don't think the film and TV arts missed Reagan or Gopher all that much. ;) Glad Clint came back, though.

I don't know, Dr. Fager-- I enjoyed reading Somer and DTS's dialogue in this thread. Yes, often people get locked into "I must win" but I often see discussions go in directions I wouldn't expect here. I like to think of the OT board as a 21st century version of the 19th century salon. :)

Somer, I applaud and admire your passion for a kinder world, but I get tired of the hateful, awful, bigoted things flung around by the likes of Coulter and Limbaugh getting dismissed with, "Oh, liberals are just as bad." Because I really don't believe they are-- I don't hear anything coming out of leading liberal commentators that rivals the filth that Coulter spews. And it's probably why she makes more money, because, as I said, America loves a freak show. If you can find things from liberal commentators on the level of Coulter or Limbaugh that equals the things she's said, please post it. (Not the crazy blogger with an audience of six- we'll be here until the end of time if we start doing that). Otherwise, I think Coulter occupies a very special place in the "Making money by promoting hatred" Department.

Regarding the attacks on "Communists" and Martin Luther King-- was it liberals or conservatives that led those movements? Your examples aren't helping the "liberals are just as bad" argument.

Somer, believe it or not, political discourse has been this ugly in the US before-- check out the late 1800's. Whenever the divide between rich and poor gets great, the discourse gets uglier, because the haves must figure out a way to keep the have-nots voting for them. And there's nothing like morality and personal attacks to get people to vote against their own economic interests. From the NYTimes (I'll post the link, too), about the AMT:

<<Meanwhile the stated goal of the original tax is not being met under the successor tax enacted 21 years ago. A far greater number of well-off families still pay only small amounts of tax. More than 41,000 taxpayers with incomes of $200,000 or more in 2003, the last year for which figures are available, paid less than 10 percent of their income in individual income taxes. And the number of untaxed high-income families — once 155 — grew to 2,824.>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/we...ew&oref=slogin

And yet, people on this board claim the wealthy are currently "taking it on the chin" and continute to vote for policies that keep the wealthy paying less tax than I do. Go figure.

Hugs to you for your always thought-provoking, kind posts. :)

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns.
Some comments remind me of an exchange I had with a third grader once.
Q: Did you call --- a name?
A: Johnny did too, so did Max, so did Mary....
Q: Wait a minute, the question was "Did you call --- a name?"
A: Uhhh...fade to silence.

It fascinates that avoidance behavior, once learned, is played again and again.

Bill Mahr said...
Al Franken said...
On and on....

So, back to Ann Coulter....
She laughed about her remarks.
A PA newspaper has withdrawn her column.
Verizon no longer has their sponsorship on her web page.
Mitt, John Mc, and Rudy have spoken against her attacks, labeling them as "offensive".
Many Conservatives have also denounced her words.

This opinion says more:
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/news....d=576361&rfi=6

DTS,
Please don't take my remarks as an attempt to "justify" the ugly rhetoric of Coulter...you know how I feel about her ideology, I'm simply pointing out that falling into the trap of personal attacks and hate speech only clouds the important issues of the day. History will judge Bush, it is counterproductive to spend time attacking him...better to put forth workable solutions to the mess we are in! Attacking those in power is a poor substitute for regaining that power and making meaningful change...I hate seeing folks get sidetracked in this way! Coulter and those like her will self-destruct (as you pointed out above) as long as the discussion doesn't drop to her level...at that point, she actually gains credibility!

GR,
Actually, a lot of so-called liberals joined the "commie search" to distance themselves from those further left, Bobby and J. F. Kennedy were in positions of power when the attacks on Dr King took place...hard to believe they couldn't have curbed JEH if they so desired. Again, my point isn't which side is worse...it's that we ALL need to rise above such behavior if we are ever to make changes! I've often said, the only thing I dislike more than liberal ideology is conservative ideology...but both have valid points.

Mahr, Coulter and Franken are all of the same ilk.
They love attention.

Mahr gets his little crowd together so they can all clap for him and make him seem so insightful and sly. Franken was made famous by another major dip on FOX who tried to sue him (how stupid can a man like Bill OReilly be, or it just a bad temper?). And Coulter is pure acid.

All of these people love to create divisions thru attention. They must have an audience and be devisive to have any sort of self worth.

Somer,
First, I wasn't attempting to use your remarks incorrectly.
I enjoy exchanging ideas with you. I respect your views, and though I don't agree with all of them, you present them clearly and intelligently.
My comment was regarding all the twists this thread has taken.
Everything you said from "I'm simply"...on, I agree completely.
Consider this, in order to regain power, is it not important to demonstrate that those currently holding it have abused it and no longer deserve it?
To me, that's the first step towards change.

The people that get stuff done face hostile crowds and try and explain themselves in a rational manner. If one really believes they can make a difference in Government, one must attempt to sway the opposition that contains rational people why their different ideas merit consideration.

Ann Coulter plays games and is irrational.
Mahr loves the attention of people who agree with him and find him witty, I dont.
Franken is an attack dog. Wait till he actually attempts to get things done.

***********NEWS FLASH**********

Ann Coulter stripped!!!!!!!!
YES!
Her site has been stripped of sponsors.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_New...-113316-9302r/

Now, I'm hoping that the rumor I heard about her "relationship" with O J Simpson develops. I've heard he has an attraction to "blonds".
Howard Kurtz reports that Ann has saggy t-tties.
Will these people just grow up and leave OJ and Ann alone for about a half hour???????? Gee whiz!!!!

Mes amis, Maher first and foremost is running a COMEDY show. It's political, yes, but it's COMEDY. He'll sacrifice a subtlety to make a joke. He's a comedian; it's his job. Likewise Franken's books- they're political yes, but they're humor books first. Some, "Lying Liars" better than others "The Truth- With Jokes!" (I found that one kind of boring and didn't finish it) I also am confounded by people who expect comedians to be running serious news shows (see Hannity's interview with John Stewart a few years back).

Pgardn, who is Franken attacking for? I'm not aware of him having links to any specific Dem. He seems to be doing the same thing Coulter is, but with less bad language and with more facts to back him up. Michael Moore, sure, one can make a very strong argument that he plays fast and loose with timelines at the VERY least. But Franken? I haven't found anything in his "Lying Liars," anyway, that has been contradicted. (Happy to be wrong, of course, as I prefer having all the facts, too. And as I said, I didn't finish "The Truth" because I thought it was kind of dull)

His chapters on Ann Coulter are pretty funny, actually. As is his account of the O'Reilly lawsuit. He says O'Reilly was upset because the picture of him on Franken's book made him look "blotchy." And yeah, that lawsuit was comedy gold. Who wouldn't have taken advantage of it? Here in NYC, while it was going on, a local hotdog joint put up a banner that said, "We love you Al Franken! To us, you are always 'Vare and Valanced.'!" Almost got me to go buy hotdogs from them, except I don't like hotdogs. (I know, I know, why do I hate our freedom?)

I humbly disagree. Maher is a comedian who takes himself and his political views seriously. Just like Dennis Miller, just on the opposite side. Neither are funny anymore. And his HBO show is much more of a political discussion than comedy.

Franken. Franken is a destroyer. Once you step over the line and run for office, solutions must be addressed for specific problems. He got into all this by becoming critical, not by saying, I have got ideas that are way better than this and I would like to try them, hear me out. I am dismissing this guy who starts as a destroyer and now must attempt to produce solutions. He never says I got a better way, he just says this is a joke and it aint working. I very much dislike this type of personality. They are not useful in what I do at all. So in my sheltered world of trying to produce solutions to problems, this man is an alien. And not useful as a functioning Government official. How many politicians have come to Al Franken to discuss policy because of his expertise?

I'm tired of you guys picking on my girl...How bout a little respect...