Jim Gluckson response to BC changes

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Scav

I know you are obviously joking but since you are in Chicago I am curious if you have ever been to Fairmount?

Yeah I've been multiple times, although not in the last few years.

It makes Hawthorne look like Arlington.

The bus station analogy is just about right.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

Or even better,how about just getting rid of breeders cup altogether??

Maybe I'm in the minority - but I always loved Breeders Cup Saturday. If it wasn't the greatest day in Sports - it sure was the greatest day in racing.

[AeWingnut]

I think people are upset because everything is a prep for the Breeder's Cup instead of the main event. The Jockey Gold Cup etc...

I love the old format
now they are just diluting the water

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Maybe I'm in the minority - but I always loved Breeders Cup Saturday. If it wasn't the greatest day in Sports - it sure was the greatest day in racing.

I don't think you're in the minority at all. Most racing fans love the stupid Breeders' Cup.

It is only a few of us old-fashioned types that detest it as a sport-killing monstrosity.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I'm not old enough to think it was anything other than a brilliant idea.

However, they are doing a real fine job of ruining it.

[RolloTomasi]

Not to stray too far off-topic, but after reading the initial quote, wouldn't it have been easier to stomach a name change for the cumbersome "Filly and Mare Turf" to "Ladies Turf" rather than changing the "Distaff" to the cheesy "Ladies Classic"?

Of course, "Distaff Turf" would have been fine, too.

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

I think people are upset because everything is a prep for the Breeder's Cup instead of the main event. The Jockey Gold Cup etc...

I love the old format
now they are just diluting the water

"now they are just diluting the water"

who put orange juice in my orange juice?

-wc fields.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Maybe I'm in the minority - but I always loved Breeders Cup Saturday. If it wasn't the greatest day in Sports - it sure was the greatest day in racing.

I also did, and still do. Attending the '01 BC was one of my lifetime highlights... as was the '06 BC. however I'm in the majority that these changes are terrible.

[King Glorious]

I have always and still do love the BC. I don't understand anyone that thinks that the BC is what's messing up horse racing. Do these same people think that the Derby is messing up the sport because more and more trainers are looking at just using two preps instead of three now? The Derby hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and owners that's changed. The BC hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and the owners that's changed. The BC didn't go to Belmont and tell them to change the distances of their prep races in order to make them better suited to be preps for the BC. That was their own doing. Don't blame the BC for that. The BC didn't make guys like Frankel and Pletcher decide that they send their horses in off of two month breaks. The BC concept has not changed. It was and still is a great one.

This furor over the shuffling of the races is just silly, IMO. I think that Gluckson is absolutely correct in that most of it is because people get used to tradition and hate change. I think he's correct that in a few years, these changes will have helped the Friday card become more meaningful. I can tell you honestly that if Discreet Cat hadn't been running in the Dirt Mile, I very likely would have missed the Friday card last year. I had absolutely no interest in watching any of the other horses running. But because I was going to tune in to watch DC, I watched the other races too. This year, I will surely be tuning in to watch the Distaff (or whatever it's called) and the F/M Turf and because I'll be watching, I'll see the other races too. So for at least one fan, this move is doing exactly what Gluckson is saying they want it to do and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I've always felt that people that are reluctant to change are what's been causing the slow death of this sport. All change doesn't have to be bad. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's necessary.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I have always and still do love the BC. I don't understand anyone that thinks that the BC is what's messing up horse racing. Do these same people think that the Derby is messing up the sport because more and more trainers are looking at just using two preps instead of three now? The Derby hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and owners that's changed. The BC hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and the owners that's changed. The BC didn't go to Belmont and tell them to change the distances of their prep races in order to make them better suited to be preps for the BC. That was their own doing. Don't blame the BC for that. The BC didn't make guys like Frankel and Pletcher decide that they send their horses in off of two month breaks. The BC concept has not changed. It was and still is a great one.
This furor over the shuffling of the races is just silly, IMO. I think that Gluckson is absolutely correct in that most of it is because people get used to tradition and hate change. I think he's correct that in a few years, these changes will have helped the Friday card become more meaningful. I can tell you honestly that if Discreet Cat hadn't been running in the Dirt Mile, I very likely would have missed the Friday card last year. I had absolutely no interest in watching any of the other horses running. But because I was going to tune in to watch DC, I watched the other races too. This year, I will surely be tuning in to watch the Distaff (or whatever it's called) and the F/M Turf and because I'll be watching, I'll see the other races too. So for at least one fan, this move is doing exactly what Gluckson is saying they want it to do and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I've always felt that people that are reluctant to change are what's been causing the slow death of this sport. All change doesn't have to be bad. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's necessary.

You and I have argued this many times, so I won't go over my whole argument again, but first of all I honestly don't know how you can say that the BC hasn't changed.
The '08 and the '09 BCs will look a lot different than the BCs in the 1980s:

First of all, (and most importantly) there will be no dirt races.
Secondly, it will be a 2-day "event."
Thirdly, there will be a bunch of new races.

As for the larger point, nobody in their right mind would argue that the BC is the one and only thing destroying this sport. There are a lot of contenders in that department. The bottom line for me is that the BC was a terrible idea in the begining, and it seems to be getting worse and worse all the time.

As for comparing the Derby and the BC, I know that you know what a ridiculous analogy that is, so I won't take the time to respond to that.....again.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Good luck to them getting Prime Time television coverage.....especially on any Saturday.

The whole fricken point is that it shouldn't be on network TV...Racing is NOT a national sport.. the only time it transends into mainstream sports is when a superstar horse or story evolves.. Racing should embrace it's TVG/HRTV fan base and develop programming and content for it's showcase day, inconjuction with its wagering outlets.

Imagine experts on racing examining and delving into racing for 6 - 8 weeks prior to the races? Build your foundation then grow your business..It's really fairly simple.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I have always and still do love the BC. I don't understand anyone that thinks that the BC is what's messing up horse racing. Do these same people think that the Derby is messing up the sport because more and more trainers are looking at just using two preps instead of three now? The Derby hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and owners that's changed. The BC hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and the owners that's changed. The BC didn't go to Belmont and tell them to change the distances of their prep races in order to make them better suited to be preps for the BC. That was their own doing. Don't blame the BC for that. The BC didn't make guys like Frankel and Pletcher decide that they send their horses in off of two month breaks. The BC concept has not changed. It was and still is a great one.

This furor over the shuffling of the races is just silly, IMO. I think that Gluckson is absolutely correct in that most of it is because people get used to tradition and hate change. I think he's correct that in a few years, these changes will have helped the Friday card become more meaningful. I can tell you honestly that if Discreet Cat hadn't been running in the Dirt Mile, I very likely would have missed the Friday card last year. I had absolutely no interest in watching any of the other horses running. But because I was going to tune in to watch DC, I watched the other races too. This year, I will surely be tuning in to watch the Distaff (or whatever it's called) and the F/M Turf and because I'll be watching, I'll see the other races too. So for at least one fan, this move is doing exactly what Gluckson is saying they want it to do and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I've always felt that people that are reluctant to change are what's been causing the slow death of this sport. All change doesn't have to be bad. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's necessary.

Let's make everyday a Breeders Cup day!!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by miraja2

You and I have argued this many times, so I won't go over my whole argument again, but first of all I honestly don't know how you can say that the BC hasn't changed.
The '08 and the '09 BCs will look a lot different than the BCs in the 1980s:

First of all, (and most importantly) there will be no dirt races.
Secondly, it will be a 2-day "event."
Thirdly, there will be a bunch of new races.

As for the larger point, nobody in their right mind would argue that the BC is the one and only thing destroying this sport. There are a lot of contenders in that department. The bottom line for me is that the BC was a terrible idea in the begining, and it seems to be getting worse and worse all the time.

As for comparing the Derby and the BC, I know that you know what a ridiculous analogy that is, so I won't take the time to respond to that.....again.

The concept of the BC hasn't changed. That's what I said. It was started as a day at the end of the year to get the top horses in each division together to have championship races. That's still what it is. The new races and the second day don't change that. I can't believe that you are holding the dirt/synthetic issue against the BC. They weren't the ones that mandated the CA tracks to install the stuff. With Churchill taking themselves out of the running and Gulfstream basically doing the same, what is the BC supposed to do? Alternate it back and forth between Belmont and Woodbine? A lot of the complaining being heard about the BC being at SA in back to back years is not due to the synthetic track but about it being way out here on the West Coast. So should they solve that problem by permanently holding it on the East Coast?

I don't know why the Derby analogy was a bad one. One of the main problems people seem to think they have with the BC is the way that trainers alter their schedules to fit with the BC. Isn't that the same thing trainers do with the Derby?

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The concept of the BC hasn't changed. That's what I said. It was started as a day at the end of the year to get the top horses in each division together to have championship races. That's still what it is. The new races and the second day don't change that. I can't believe that you are holding the dirt/synthetic issue against the BC. They weren't the ones that mandated the CA tracks to install the stuff. With Churchill taking themselves out of the running and Gulfstream basically doing the same, what is the BC supposed to do? Alternate it back and forth between Belmont and Woodbine? A lot of the complaining being heard about the BC being at SA in back to back years is not due to the synthetic track but about it being way out here on the West Coast. So should they solve that problem by permanently holding it on the East Coast?

I don't know why the Derby analogy was a bad one. One of the main problems people seem to think they have with the BC is the way that trainers alter their schedules to fit with the BC. Isn't that the same thing trainers do with the Derby?

Cease to exist.

[miraja2]

Oh, and with regards to the synthetic issue, part of me hopes they run the BC on synthetic every year.
If they do, there might be a chance that people who train real live dirt horses might start planning campaigns that ignore the BC altogether. That might just be wishful thinking on my part, but it seems reasonable.....that is if there are any dirt tracks left in a few years.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I have always and still do love the BC. I don't understand anyone that thinks that the BC is what's messing up horse racing. Do these same people think that the Derby is messing up the sport because more and more trainers are looking at just using two preps instead of three now? The Derby hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and owners that's changed. The BC hasn't changed. It's the mentality of the trainers and the owners that's changed. The BC didn't go to Belmont and tell them to change the distances of their prep races in order to make them better suited to be preps for the BC. That was their own doing. Don't blame the BC for that. The BC didn't make guys like Frankel and Pletcher decide that they send their horses in off of two month breaks. The BC concept has not changed. It was and still is a great one.

This furor over the shuffling of the races is just silly, IMO. I think that Gluckson is absolutely correct in that most of it is because people get used to tradition and hate change. I think he's correct that in a few years, these changes will have helped the Friday card become more meaningful. I can tell you honestly that if Discreet Cat hadn't been running in the Dirt Mile, I very likely would have missed the Friday card last year. I had absolutely no interest in watching any of the other horses running. But because I was going to tune in to watch DC, I watched the other races too. This year, I will surely be tuning in to watch the Distaff (or whatever it's called) and the F/M Turf and because I'll be watching, I'll see the other races too. So for at least one fan, this move is doing exactly what Gluckson is saying they want it to do and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I've always felt that people that are reluctant to change are what's been causing the slow death of this sport. All change doesn't have to be bad. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's necessary.

the derby hasn't changed, the bc hasn't changed, but we should accept the changes that have been made?

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's remarkable to think something so brilliant can come from the mind of someone who thought Adriano was a lock from the 12 hole in the Fountain Of Youth.

Or that Cool Coal Man was a piece of sheet...

[AeWingnut]

I'd like to think that I won't watch or bet the races on Friday (I probably will) but I can tell you that I won't be wagerig any more money on the BC than I have in the past. if I don't cash early I won't be betting late.

[fpsoxfan]

I've said it before, but all of these changes to the BC is a result of the "supersize me" mentality that many sports executives have.
I always looked forward to Breeders Cup day. I wish they hadn't changed it, but they did. I will still bet it as many will. I'll most likely tread lightly on Friday and do most of my wagering on Saturday.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by freddymo

The whole fricken point is that it shouldn't be on network TV...Racing is NOT a national sport.. the only time it transends into mainstream sports is when a superstar horse or story evolves.. Racing should embrace it's TVG/HRTV fan base and develop programming and content for it's showcase day, inconjuction with its wagering outlets.

Imagine experts on racing examining and delving into racing for 6 - 8 weeks prior to the races? Build your foundation then grow your business..It's really fairly simple.

But then how can the Breeders Cup make even MORE money by SELLING it's TV rights?