Originally Posted by King Glorious

Laettner's first five seasons in the NBA:
18.2 and 8.7 boards
16.8 and 8.6
16.3 and 7.6
16.4 and 7.3
18.1 and 8.8

I'd HARDLY call putting up those kinds of numbers in the NBA as a failure. He even made the All-Star game once.

Dawkins barely played as a rookie but after that, in seasons 2-4:
15.8 and 7.4 assists
14.2 and 7.0
14.3 and 7.4
He was at 15.8 and 7.0 before getting hurt after four games in the next year.

Again, you don't put up those kinds of numbers at the NBA level if you are a failure.

Dunleavy has averaged double figures every season in the league after his rookie year, including 19.1 a game last year. You think scoring 19 a game in the NBA is embarrassing?

Hill is not a superstar? You are letting his years since the injuries cloud your judgement. Starting with averaging 20 a night as a rookie and being named co-rookie of the year, look at what he did after that:
20 points, 10 board, 7 assists (10 triple doubles)
21, 9, and 7 (13)
21, 8, and 7 (4)
21, 7, and 6 (1)
26, 7, and 5

He was an all-star every season. He made second team all-league in his second season and first team in his third. He was second team the next three years. He was second in the league in defensive rebounds one year (top 10 overall), top 10 in the league in assists the next year, then third in scoring a few seasons after that. There wasn't a thing Grant couldn't do on the court. He also had 29 triple-doubles in that period.

Brand has only averaged 20-10 four times and his career averages are 20 and 10. Compare him to a guy like Tim Duncan:

Duncan 21.4, 11.7, 3.2 asts, 2.4 blks, .507 fgp
Brand 20.0, 10.1, 2.6 asts, 2.1 blks, .503 fgp

One is a first ballot hall of famer and the other isn't even a star? Please.