My theory and feelings on Polytrack
 

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….:eek:

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff? :rolleyes:

:mad:

The sad part is that its been embraced by euro trainers who could never figure out how to excel with dirt horses, they simply can't train them like our guys can.
This stuff was created in England as a suitable winter time work surface for GRASS HORSES!!!
Its a scam.
Agree with all you said. Horses didn't run wild and evolve over the millions of years on tires.

Over/under on lengths beaten by Asi Siempre if she actually goes in the Distaff, I'm setting it at 22.

Keeneland's poly surface sure has a knack for making horses look like they're running in a skating rink. Brahms Lullaby was sliding all over the stretch in the last race.

Yeah, I like her and I like her sire, but she'll get drowned in the Distaff....

Pillow, jocks and trainers are already saying that many, if not most horses who are true dirt horses don't grab it and change the way that they run.
At this time you won't read any harsh comments, because they fear repercussions by the gestapo who is pumping this stuff up if they voice it.

I know if I were in their shoes I would do the exact same thing. They risk too much speaking out against this madness.

Yeah, I hate to be the condescnding media here, but I have to much pride to sit back and alloow everybody to overhype this stuff like its the greatest thing we've ever invented in thsi sport....it makes me sick everytime I hear it and it wouldn't be fair to the horse racing fans on this forum is i didn't give my views on it....

I hate to be the devil's advocate and no I'm not trying to 'rock the boat', but I really don't like this stuff.....can we just go back to running on the dirt, please? :eek:

Catch a few after the races at dinner after a ****tail or two after a nice horse they ran just got beat by some mule, they'll speak out plenty. Just can't tell the press.

co cktail :D :D :D

carry over.....good luck..

Joel you speak to trainers and jocks as well, I'm sure you have heard plenty negative about it, off the record of course.

Cunningham I thought you knew something about the Natural History of horses. Oracle you too.
For at least the past 400 years humans have intestively bred horses to perform many functions. The draft horses, the pack animals etc... You and I on this board have taken a particular liking to those bred to run on tracks. Horses did not evolve naturally to run in ovals on the dirt. WE, human beings, have selectively bred these animals to perform their current functions. Certain behaviors such as social herd heirarchy and other behaviors are highly ingrained. But we, human beings, have drastically changed the physique and biomechanics of these animals thru selective breeding. The same can be done for polytrack. Why all the fuss right now Cunningham? Its not like selective breeding just started with thoroughbreds. As far as God creating the current form of animal we are looking at... oh boy, I'll stop there. Read the above. Look at what HUMANS have done thru selective breeding to Dogs, Corn, etc... the list is endless.

And I am withholding opinions on Polytrack until more data is in. And far as the complaints about the crud getting into the horses lungs and causing major problems, etc... thats laughable. Ask any vet who knows what they are doing and ask them how much dirt gets in horses lungs. When complaints are made about polytrac that are patently false, the people who put forth these claims make themselves look to be disingenious. And then when one cries wolf when the wolf is actually present, one is not taken seriously.

God didn't create me to walk on concrete and asphalt either.. but I do.

lets not call somebodys horse a mule just because he ran well.....if you had sold this one or had some involvment..you would sing a much diffrent tune....hats off to the owner and trainer...they took a shot and it payed off..

I cant believe I just wasted 2 minutes reading this post....

Get over it, Polytrack is here to stay, its coming to all North American tracks eventually. Embrace it, or become extinct.

I guess it's good for people who like playing the Schrupp button. That's about the only way you would've cashed the Pick 4 today. Jesus. A River Downs mule takes an allowance at Keeneland.

Its funny you say that....my experience has been that the bad trainers (from a percentage standpoint) love it and the good trainers (won't mention names) hate it...and that is based on a PRETTY SIZABLE sample...that is the one pattern I have seen, and the OBVIOUS reason that pattern exists is because the bad trainers now have the equalizer over the good trainers because nobody knows which horses will run on it or not - so the bad trainers have a chance now....

The sad thing is that all of the good trainers are miffed by it....they don't understand why their horses don't like it because a couple fo them (who are VERY well-known guys) have told me that they are completely confused because they're horses work brilliantly on it and then they flop when they actually run on it in a race....AND BELIEVE ME when I say that these two or three guys KNOW when their horses are ready to fire and are some of the best trainers in the country IMO.....

Its a damn shame, man....

How anyone can complain about a $154k pick 4 payout is beyond me...

Brilliant angle... who is going to argue this?

Do you work in management at a racetrack?

Actually, pgardn, the Thoroughbred originated from the Godolphin Arabian, the Byerley Turk, and the Darley Arabian. All Thoroughbreds (in fact all light or hot-blooded horses) today are descendants of Arabians, who have been bred through the ages to be desert animals. They ran on desert sand.

How many times did you have it genius?

Its kinda like I am getting the feeling you are saying God made these animals for our pleasure to watch run in an oval around a dirt track. That is... well, to be nice, more than silly. I understand people do not like change. And the industry may be jumping on the stuff too fast for what some people who dont like change are used to. I can understand that.

Of course not, but I am able to see the future of racing, and its all about Poly!!

Tickets like those are usually either hit by a large syndicate or someone who just plays numbers. I guess it's good if you want to get the Bingo crowd or a bunch of penny stock daytraders interested in the game.

Well then i'm seeing the future you see and i'm seeing for sale signs at the smaller tracks.

Zero of course, but at $154k I am very likely to concentrate my pick 4 playing there than I am at SA, BEL, or other tracks were they are lucky to hit $100

or the owner of the "nag" in question

Thats a possibility, but I think things will be OK in the long run.

Thank you Miss Roses, I know that. But the thoroughbred is not the only "breed" of horse. I think you understand what I am saying. SELECTIVE BREEDING to suit function. Not God's will. Look at the big draft animals. How many horses around before human beings were lugging around big sleds of lumber?

So, what if Storm Cats and A.P. Indys don't like it? Do we now stand them for $5K stud fee and weed then out of the Thoroughbred chain?

Why should we have to dillute and re-tool our breeding to tailor it to a new surface? It is going to screw up the legacy and classic bloodlines of our industrys greats - wrecking tradition after tradition and screwing with our history and heritage....:mad:

I strongly disagree with you....I don't want our breed to change - the same way as I don't want 5'5" 160-pound guys excelling in football if the NFL were to hypothetically change their surface of playing field from grass or artificial turf to playing on cotton pillows, would you?

Maybe Lemon Drops Kid will be the leading sire on that crap and Storm Cat will become an after-thought...do you really want that to happen? :mad:

Yeah, it will really help people out when thousands of guys play a pik-4, and there are two winning tickets sold. I won't play the stuff, plain and simple.

I have never missed the Saratoga meet as much as I do now.

I have never looked forward to the Churchill fall meet as much as I have now, regardless of the Breeders Cup.

Hollywood Park? Whooo if you think it's bad at Keeneland right now just wait until opening day out there.

We can also vote, can horses? Comon with that crap....you also don't have to hunt your pray in the widl either. You know humans don't apply to the rest....thats why we run the planet.....please don't compare humans in the same categories as other mammals, etc....

If anyone doesn't realize that this will have horrible impacts on the breeding industry, they are mistaken.
You crash the bloodstock market Pgard, and you will crash the whole game.
The reality is that the residual value is the only way you can win as an owner. You dilute the whole bloodstock market and crash the prices, you cansay goodbye to everyone but the Sheikhs and Coolmore. Noone else can afford to piss away money like that. Do you know how few yearlings purchased for over 100 grand ever earn themselves out BEFORE the additional expenses? Take away the hope on the back end, and you got nothing.

Sorry but as a fan of horse racing and a handicapper, I am not worried about the future of the breeding lines what so ever.

Unless you have some sort of financial interest in the breeding industry, you should'nt give a rats ass about the breeding side of it.

how do you group them together in this context?? don't certain players excel on the artificial turf more so than on real grass.. come on!!! They've ruined the NFL.

sounds silly doesn't it.

Dude, I'm with you 100%. I have sorely missed having Keeneland to follow wholeheartedly and play.
They can't open Churchill soon enough for me.

Retool? Dirt racing was retooling. Do you like dirt racing? Lets take it all back to grass. The biggest money races started on grass? What the hell is this Dirt stuff the Euro's say...

Lord.