Never won on the dirt theory is dead
 

Mine That Bird, no wins on natural dirt 1st
POTN no wins on dirt 2nd

Yeah - and derby starters with back to back defeats at Sunland Park for 1-for-32 trainers are now historically batting a thousand in the race.

This is stupid.
Anyone that throws out a horse just because it hadn't won (or run) on dirt was foolish.
Anyone that says past dirt form doesn't matter, is also foolish.
Horses must be taken one at a time. Some can run well on multiple sufraces. Some can't.

The idea that there was some "theory" that should now be tossed out the window because of something Mine that Bird did, doesn't make any sense to me at all. Starting a thread to make such a proclamation....makes even less.

Right, one exacta singlehandedly kills the significance of having dirt experience. Mine That Bird beat a neutered field by saving all the ground, and POTN was a mediocre, drifting out second by a nose.

that'll be the basis of my betting attack next year.

i know it's crazy, MTB is out of Birdstone, remember SmartyJ, must need at least 11/4 to get close

miracle of miracles.

But the nine-furlong race rule lives on!

Identifying Birdstone as Mine that Bird's mother is only one of the things that didn't make sense to me about that post.

me too!

You better watch it. There are certain God-like (at least in their own minds) figures on this board that will tell you otherwise and if you didn't agree with them, you were stupid, an idiot, or both.

i worded it wrong should have said sired not out of my screw-up

actually, what miraja wrote is what most have said. i don't think anyone has said a poly horse can't run on dirt. i think most have said that some can, and some can't. but for many, they would rather bet on a known dirter than one they aren't sure of. this sure has gotten turned into a big deal.

We know there was a certain one that said he can't. Insisted he can't. Saying you'd rather get a higher price on one that hadn't shown he can do it, that makes perfect sense. But insisting that a horse can't do it when he'd never tried it was kinda surprising to me considering the source.

if it makes no sense then why are you typing away on it? are you the thread judge? it was to stir conversation on an issue many talked about with POTN.not to create ill feelings

this thread is so ****ing stupid I feel like kicking you in the face, no way in hell the race turns out like this if we have a fast track. The track was set up for poly horses all day with all the rain. So much in fact I boxed the 5 horses in the ex that came from keenland 4-5-7-8-9

drugs did suggest i unload on him , he most have saw something in the pp's

then you lost $60 on the tri and $120 on the super

A lot better finish than the anti-POLYITES (i.e., the not FAST ENOUGH crowd) would have had us believe.

The bashing of these horses, and this surface, really needs to stop.

Not to worry, however. I understand Beyer is tackling the INEFFICIENCY of his figures on artificial surfaces problem. Yeah, all the major minds in his team are getting together and they're gonna hammer out tighter non-dirt figs; so, his disciples should be back in the game anytime now.:rolleyes:

No sane person can possibly think Pioneer of the Nile ran a particularly good race today. He clunked along faster than most of the others. Congratulations. One horse ran.....and eighteen didn't. Some just didn't show up a little ( or a lot ) more than others.

Musket Man ran with the track set up dead against him and he still finished second in my book

18 horses didn't show up? after weeks of training work-outs and fine tuning only a couple of horses showed up? i don't buy it. The top four handled a tough track the others could not.

You need to work on your reading comprehension if you ever expect me to respond to you again.

like i just wrote in a pm, i don't trust the results. on that surface that they had today....i think it's a toss. who would use todays finish to bet these horses next time out? on a fast track? i wouldn't. and i picked musket man who seemed to run credibly. but who knows?
i wouldn't bet the winner back off that effort in two weeks. or the place horse for that matter. hell, mine that bird won by almost seven. how the hell does that flatter POTN? he sucked less then the others?

the winner won by almost seven. seems to me he was the only one to really handle the track. they all finished. but only one finished well.

Musket Man ran his usual unspectacular race. He's a very " nice " horse....but hardly of the quality one would hope for a Classic winner. He, along with Pioneer of the Nile, ran their expected races. They were good enough to lose the KY Derby by almost seven lengths. Sometimes that means you finish ninth and tenth....and once a century second and third.

Musket Man running 4th was like my strongest opinion of the whole race after the scratches.

I thought he had it nailed down till the last desperate surge.

Musket Man wins with that trip on a fast track

andy - wouldn't it be best for the connections to skip the preakness , give the horse some rest and get ready for the summer at MTH/DEL/PHA , he s/b able to keep making checks for them in g3's no?

i wouldn't go that far. i picked him...but who knows what much of the rest of the field would have done if it was fast. not finish 10 or more lengths back of that monster, mine that bird.

i'd take him to md, but i wouldn't go to ny for 1 1/2 with him.

I think the lesson here is that regardless of what Pioneerof The Nile did today or does in the future, you will under no circumstances ever admit that he's talented. I just don't see any scenario under which you would ever reverse course on this issue.

If he wins the Preakness or Belmont, it's because all the good horse got hurt.

If he wins the Breeders' Cup Classic, then it's because he's a synthetic horse.

If he wins multiple Grade Is this year and next, it's because of the relative mediocrity of the competition.

Yo

Once the BEYER gang hammers out those super duper ARTI-FIGS, and the horse runs fast enough according to those figs, he'll be accepted.

Otherwise, he ain't **** and it's unusual circumstances that make him look good.

When he runs almost as fast as Macho Again I will admit I was wrong about him. I'm still waiting.

who said this thread made no sense, everybody talking with opinions, i like it.

The off track favored polyrats end of story

We'll just see what JW has to say about that on Tuesday.

Do you really think POTN ran that great of a race today? He looked very tired in the stretch and barely hung on for the second. The best of this generation didn't run today and POTN couldn't beat what was left. Frankly, I am not all that impressed with POTN or anyone who ran today.

There is nothing wrong with the synthetic figures!! It's a THIRD surface!! It's similar to the idea of winning a turf race and then trying dirt for the first time. Synthetic figures are their own figures and should not be changed to look faster.