Very Mixed Feelings
 

I have to admit that I have always wanted to see a triple crown winner. I was too young to remember the trio that pulled it off in the 70's. I have watched all the film and have bought all kinds of TC photos, pins, etc. But I couldn't wait for the day, that I could see it all happen. Now it would be even better that I would be able to enjoy it with my son. The last couple of times, I was really into it. Even with horses that I really didn't like or I didn't think had a shot going into the Belmont (War Emblem, Smarty Jones), I was rooting for them to do the trick. After every derby you think, hope that that this is the one (except the year of Giacomo). But for some reason, I just can't get excited about Big Brown winning the Triple Crown. I know he still has 2 races in front of him and I am not crowning him yet. But I just can't put my finger on why I am so uninspired. The horse ran great and has done nothing wrong, 4 wide from the 20 and he won for fun. Maybe because he is just a very good horse running against a bunch of slow 3 year olds? I expect the Preakness to be even worse. Big Brown running against a bunch of locals. It is not the ownership issue, hell I know a guy that has a piece of him. Is anyone else expirencing the same feeling as me? Who knows, maybe I will catch the fever in 2 weeks. But as of now the only thing I am looking foward to is taking my boys to Monmouth park in a couple of weeks and Saratoga down the road.

To me, the above is the sticking point. I mean, if it wasn't for BB this year, and the EB's tragedy muddles this, but who would be running in The Preakness if she had won and BB wasn't around? Where is there any rivalry forming?

I'm rooting for him.

A story that intrigues me is the resurrection of Desormeaux's career. I've always thought he's the most talented rider in the jockey colony and he's going to prove it in the upcoming years.

This is a good point coach. When he came east in 2006 it was a big move for him and his family. His career was in a lull. Many trainers were turning their backs on him for various reasons, one of which was that he was a bit of a headcase and not following instructions

Early in the 2006 Spa meet I had a chance to chat with him. He was very friendly, a little frustrated and seemed very humbled. He told me to "stick with him", because he felt he was slowly going to be getting live mounts. Sure enough as the season went on his business picked up and he had some very good winners. One year later he finished second. It's been a long road back for him and I hope he and Big Brown win the Triple crown.

I agree with you and you can throw in that this crop stinks and the preps were awful. With the exception of BIG BROWN and COLONEL JOHN,look at the Derby odds of the winners of the major preps.

I like Benny as much as anyone. Yet, oddly, I still laughed.

I don't know. Curlin has won me over and I hate his connections far more than I hate the connections of Big Brown. I really think it is the lack of competition coupled with the breakdown of the second place finisher in the Derby that makes it feel like it would be a cheap Triple Crown and after 30 years I don't want to see a cheap Triple Crown unless the horse would actually stick around to run at four like Seattle Slew which there is no way in hell that would happen with this horse.

It is extremely doubtful we'd ever see one run at 4 although there is at least a slight chance with certain owners. No chance in this case though.

I think that everyone brings up very valid points. I do think the competion or lack there of (so far) is an issue. Right now, he looks much the best of a shallow 3 year old pool. The fact that not one of the other derby horses are going to Pimlico speaks volumes. Maybe the owners are a little tough to root for too. Do they look at racing just for the bottom line and a way to make lots of money, or do they have that love/passion for the sport that so many of us here do? I have my own personal hangups about Dutrow. But all of them are unfair and based on hearsay. I do admit though watching the way that horse ran, 4-wide the whole way makes me think.... They were a very confident group going into the race with the 20 post. Kent D. kept him out of trouble and gave him a clean ride. I have no qualms about him. He did looked cool as a cucumber coming out of the jocks room on the way to the paddock before the race. Maybe he knows the horse is a monster. As far as horses running after if they should win the TC. Forget about 4, I don't even think you would see them make the Travers/Haskell. I think they would end up going right to the barn. That doesn't bother me as much, because these days (unfortunatley) it's just part of the game.

For me it's the human connections. It's hard to root for Dutrow. Period! In regards to the owners, the problem I have is with how they bought their way into the horse. If it were the sheiks, people would be batshit over it. I just feel differently about a situation like this where these guys are throwing money around after a horse has proven himself on the racetrack than I do for a homebred or an auction purchase. Not alot of effort goes into seeing BB air at Saratoga and then going to buy him.

Remember, these are the same geniuses that bought the mighty Lawrence the Roman last year trying to buy a Derby horse (Laugh). I'll still never understand how they got their money back after that brilliant move.

I gotta say that imho "that love/passion for the sport" are somewhat different things for horseplayers vs owners....I don't begrudge the owners who want to make a score....hell as a horseplayer I know I love it when I make one.

I'm so sorry for the delay. I could at least have offered you up a smiley face or an OOOOOOO.

Bennie Stutts is a decent trainer but it is not within the realm of remote possibility that he's be training a syndicate purchased horse. And with the issues Brown has, it is far more likely than not that anyone other than a top tier trainer has Brown both ready and peaked for the race.

Follow?

On the horsemen/CDI/ADW dispute, Churchill has been been in no hurry to get a deal done for months now. The horsemen had only one chip to play and they played it instead of caving in. I respect that.

Of course, you know the biggest issue in Florida isn't the ADW deal but rather slots. CDI's stalling has been based, in great measure, on speculation over a reduced tax structure for pari-mutuel slots. Well, guess what.... the legislative session closed Friday and it didn't get done. CDI f'ed it up. Or, more kindly, couldn't get the deal done. And guess what, after months of signaling that Calder would settle on a slots rev split with horsemen similar to what is in place at Gulfstream, CDI reneged and said they can't do a slots revenue sharing deal for Calder until, after it determines “where and how to put in slot machines” at Calder. Interesting or not, Ken Dunn issued that statement the day before he got canned. Perhaps the slots will go in Dunn's empty office.

I suppose CDI is within their rights to float certain intentions and then change course. In the end, it's a collectively bargained dispute. There's no black or white but I side with the horsemen.

I'm sure you know Churchill's stock was down 7% on Friday and another 5%+ today. That might lend you some clue as to how the rest of the world views Churchill's acumen.

Does this help?

What side of the fence do you land on?

Am I back on your holiday card list?

You are indeed a special kind of slow. No press releases. I follow the company and the story is in the freaking newspapers here. You do not need to be jealous of the fact that I actually understand what is going on here, just as you don't have to feel poorly about thinking first time MCL starters are "sometimes good value" on the Aqueduct Inner.

Until 4 weeks ago, you wouldn't have known Bennie Stutts from Benny the Bull, much less be "well aware of his place in the game."

AS for your "if Big Brown was trained by ... Bennie Stutts," comment, this does indeed show your are truly inept at this. Horses like Brown that win the Derby in their 4th start are not trained by the Bennie Stutts of the world.

And as for people not caring about the horse because of the connections, you're wrong again. People don't care about the horse because the runner-up died on the track.

Do you EVER offer up anything other than OOOOOOOs and negative comments about what other people have to say?

Once, just ONCE, you should try putting out something positive. Pick a race. Analyze it. Put it out for us to see. But you won't because you might be wrong.

I don't expect you to answer any of my questions. You will not. That is not your style.

But I do hope you'll get back to me on the Holiday card list thing.

I laughed. Hard.


"Numerous people." Right. The next race you put out here will be the first.

You never thanked me for helping you understand the Aqueduct Inner better.

I laughed.

I think you nailed it

Hate to get in the middle of you two ladies' scuffle, but this is incorrect. Even if Eight Belles were alive and kickin', no one would care much about Big Brown. Rooting for Dutrow is about as fun as rooting for Rex Tillerson.

I dont know.. I think people would be more excited about the race and BBrown's awesome performance if the race had not been marred by Tragedy.

I know I would be. I guess I'm just rooting for big brown because he's a talented horse and I'm not forming my opinion of the horse based around his trainer. The only negative opinions of horses that I had were the Thoroughbred Corp's horses cause I hate the prince. And even that I had to get over a little cause I loved Point Given (granted i didnt have an opinion on the prince with PG was running).

Surely there would be more celebration of the PERFORMANCE had Eight Belles not gone down, but I don't think there would be any more enthusiasm for THE HORSE. Eight Belles living or dying doesn't have any effect on the fact that Big Brown has unlikeable connections. As a fan, I'd love to see a Triple Crown winner, but there's part of me that wants to see him get beaten because I'm not a Dutrow fan. If Big Brown had just about any other trainer (save for the other juicers), I'd be full bore rooting for him to win the Crown.

no. i was completely disgusted that big brown won. then the news came of the filly, and that just added to my already incredibly low feelings.

i can't remember every rooting against a horse as much as i did this one. of course it helped my perspective when someone else actually said they wanted him to be injured (but not bad :rolleyes: ) as i would not wish harm to the horse...but, you have a horse with only four starts, with a scumbag trainer and scumbag owners.
not the horses fault, but certainly not a horse you can get behind.

It's not a good idea to get behind any horse...unless your name is sumitas and the horse is Golden...err nvmd.

cant blame the horse..

:eek:

obviously. but doesn't mean you have to root for him either. he'll have a cloud of suspicion over his head, and no one to blame but his owners. why? look who they hired, look at who trained previously.

Just for the record, I'll be rooting for Big Brown to win the Triple Crown. Since I've been involved in the game I've never seen it happen. I don't have any care in the world as to who the owners are. For me it doesn't have to be a "cookie cutter" deal where everyone is in love with the horse and connections. Some of you feel differently, and that's fine. Let's just get through the rest of this without another breakdown. Don't give any more ammo to these asswipes from PETA.

I can't help but disagree. I think the Big Brown is awesome and I wish him the best. Yes..his trainer and owners are NOT endearing. That's being kind! But don't forget Curlin, owned by fen-phen fraudsters. These great animals can't pick their connections. Root for the horse and this great sport. We need heros.

i will root for him all the way...i dont see any reason to think hes been medicated..just look at him run........hes desroyed all he faced sence the first time he ran..the sad thing is there should be about 16 more with him this year..that have that ability..to run figs over 105........

i just think that wins by horses for shady connections somehow glosses over their uh...'contributions' to the sport. as tho they achieve legitimacy by having a top horse. sort of like steve asmussen last year. he went from pariah down a years suspension for two huge drug positives (the second six month suspension was waived for some reason) to being a media darling... all past transgressions seemingly forgotten.

I'm with you on the human connections. The cream doesn't rise to the top..it seems like the scum rises to the top. Asmussen and Dutrow are not trainers for the ages.
To me it's about the horses...I can't forget the excitement of seeing Affirmed/Alydar (yes, I'm admitting my age) in the Belmont. I want to see a horse like this again. This horse seems like he could be that kind. That will be the fun will be in rooting for Brown. I'd be hard pressed to remember the names of the horses involved in some of my biggest scores at the track but I still have the uncashed $2 win ticket on Affirmed.
Good luck to you and all the lively posters on DT.

hmmmm I'm not so sure that Laz Barrera was squeaky clean.

Touché.

Just like you can't pick your parents, a horse can't pick his or her connections. I understand why people feel the way they do, but in the end the only thing that matters is the horse. As much as I hate that he beat me on Saturday, I can root for Big Brown because the only thing he is guilty of is winning race after race.

yeah, four times! he just passed danzig for wins in a row.:rolleyes:

no, seriously...i had a thought. maybe for dutrow and assmussen, it's poetic justice. they remain in a sport( that if it had the same teeth as other sports, they would NOT still be a part of) and manage to find a legit horse. but now (thanks to karma?) they'll always feel slighted, because the horse will always be questioned..because of their shady, cheating, conniving, thieving pasts. so, they'll always be defensive, and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it but take it.
of course, they'll laugh all the way to the bank-but part of them will always feel this slight, the doubt some will have that the horse really did it the right way.

I do think the competion or lack there of (so far) is an issue. Right now, he looks much the best of a shallow 3 year old pool.

I'm old enough to remember Seattle Slew quite well, and in fact walked in Belmont at about 6AM or so on the morning of his Triple Crown win and ended up with primo seats at the finish line. I'll never forget it, and still have at least one uncashed $2 dollar ticket.

Point is, that Seattle Slew had all kinds of naysayers during his unbeaten run up to and through the Triple Crown. Lots of 'em.

At Belmont, not only was he "no Secretariat" to fans in the stands before the race that day, he was also "no Forego."

"He's just run well enough to win against mediocre horses" was the near universal mindset of racing fans and writers in 1977, with visions of Secretariat fresh in the mind.

I heard it so much at the time, I sort of believed it myself.

That's why I was especially happy in the years after his Triple Crown that he so excelled as a stallion.

Even more proof for eternity Seattle Slew was the real deal.

For the record, there's no way I can pull against an undefeated Kentucky Derby winner in the remaining Triple Crown races.

Especially one who won the Florida Derby, and then the Kentucky Derby in such spectacular and dominating fashion.