Denis of Cork passing Rebel; Wood next
 

Carroll will give him just one more start in the Wood before the Derby..

Not a good sign. Looks like it opens the door for Face the Cat.

At least it makes the Wood more interesting.

So if he doesn't run at least third in the Wood, and possibly second, he will have deficient earnings to make the Derby?

They may need to split the Lexington this year. A lot of guys playing the conservative route may become real risk takers on April 19th.

David Carroll and derby contender goes together like ketchup and corn flakes.

I think he has 150K right now in graded earnings. . . That's usually enough. . .

Puts him 18th right now. I didn't check to see how many ahead of him are off the trail.

Why? Don't think he learned anything under Shug and as Easy Goer's exercise rider?


Read Haskin 's piece.. Explains the decision:
http://tcm.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=44021

I just think it's an insult to Shug to suggest an exercise rider in his barn can copy what he's done in his career. If it was that easy Honu would be a HOF trainer.

I've watched Carroll's horses and his insistence on having Larry Melancon ride them and am not convinced he can compete at the highest level.

What about Tagg? He was Whitely's exercise rider at one time in his life...

Hes a very nice guy but he cannot compete at the top level. You are exactly right Pillow. His horses constantly underachieve.

I think it's an insult to Tagg to compare him to Carroll.

You're right. I didn't take into account that Carroll isn't just starting out. Tagg is one of the best.

i hope he gets in. ive cashed on many a d c horse but not in any stakes races...

He always seems to have the stock, and doesnt seem to get the results Hooves.

I've admired Tagg's ability for a long time, but it is amazing how a guy no one knew beyond PA, MD and NY before 2003 is now talked about so reverentially. He had only been training 30 years before Funny Cide showed up. Now beloved as a crusty character, up to 2003 he was best known as a SOB... for a variety of good reasons.

David Carroll has been training 15 years and has been a consistant 15% winner. He's won stakes when he's had opportunities with good horses. Have to say I'm a bit mystified by animosity directed towards him.

I was under the impression that the Southwest was ungraded ( I also thought that was ridiculous ). If it was Graded then I definitely stand corrected.

And of course every masterful horseman hits it big immediately when they start out... Like Barclay Tagg did, right? What were all those years at Liberty Bell and Bowie about then? Keeping a low profile I suppose...


:rolleyes:

I knew about Tagg well before 2003. And I tend to like SOB's rather than the ultra positive guys like Carroll who have good stock yet let Thorograph's dictate when and where that stock runs. I hope he was getting paid for that advertisement.

And really Carroll should have a consistant 15% clip with the stock he has. It's getting that stock to the next level that's been a problem. And with thorograph calling the shots that explains alot.

Finally got graded this year. Could probably run 5th in the Wood and be safe. Although anywhere behind Take of Ekati would be reason enough not to go to the Derby regardless of earnings.

I believe Mike Ryan is still managing Warren's racing stable so that may have been pointed out by him.

Then Formulator has it wrong ( which is quite possible ) as I just checked it again and they listed it as ungraded.

I remember saying to Byk at the time that it seemed absurd that it wasn't a Graded race. I guess now maybe they won't need to split the Lexington.

As Carroll indicated, the decision is being made by the connections as a team. And Frankel, Pletcher, Romans, Dutrow, Levine, and many more ALL make placement decisions with their stock based on the TG or Ragozin figures, and mention them as a matter of course. So don't make it out like Carroll is doing something bizarre or unheard of...

Denis of Cork is a TG horse?

No.

Do they all shill for tg in interviews like Carroll did?

LOL.. Sort of.. They will say in passing "So-and-so ran a "#" on the TG/Rags and we don't want to bring him/her back too soon after that kind of a career best, etc.." They aren't doing it to curry favor... They just mention it as part of their evaluation process. Some are more vocal about it than others.

Could it be remotely possible they didn't want to go up against Golden Yank?:rolleyes:

I just don't get the reasoning. Athletes need conditioning and they definitely need to be put in situations where they face adversity.

What are they saving this inexperienced horse for? All I've seen and heard from this barn are excuses. They talked like he hated the off going yet his breeding definitely didn't show that he would have a disdain for it. He beat Unbridled Vicar and that horse has proven to be less than stellar. He got the perfect setup in the Southwest. And now they're skipping the Rebel and going for one more prep until the Derby?

This horse, to me, has serious soundness issues and I'm not buying what they're selling. I'll commend them on their publicity campaign, but I've seen too many of those throughout the years to fall for the hype.

I mean no disrespect to DC, hes a good horseman, and certainly a very nice guy. The fact of the matter is he gets real quality stock and wins at a solid clip, however he does fail to get his horses to the elite level. With the horses he gets he should be a powerhouse.

Oh, and as for the Thorographs...... any publication that touts Student Council as being a good horse you have to wonder.

If these trianers cant tell when a horse is ready for a big effort maybe they should consider another line of work. No sheet, thorograph, or otherwise, should dictate a horse being ready. A trainer who has a clue should be able to tell when his horses are ready to run, or when they need a break.

No matter how you slice it, or who trains the horse, passing a race on the trail is never good.

He aint beloved by waiters or bartenders....cheapest man in America...and proud of it!

aka, someone else is calling the shots.

Hey, sheets are expensive

Yeah, it's a Grade 3 as of this year.

However the propaganda which is often shoved at owners (often by racing managers looking to prove their value on the payroll) says that because Frankel then Pletcher have been so sucessful because they use not only the numbers but the theory behind the numbers. Of course the fact they are sharp trainers who have great horses has no bearing on the outcome...must be the sheets

Sheets
 

Well said!! Racing managers.....joke

I guess if there is a huge operation a racing manager is needed, but 90 percent of these guys dont need a "racing manager"

The Sheets and Thorographs have reached the point of being obscene. I never understood trainers claiming exclusively off a figure.

There are some pretty sharp guys that act in this role but usually they are the ones that the public doesnt hear about.

In the era where there are a handful of trainers that have so many horses that they dont particualrly care if they make a bad claim, sheets are a a crutch to use in leiu of doing homework. Iwinski was a guy who I always respected not just because he won but because he was always out by the paddock at whatever track he was stabled at looking at the potential claims and making notes. Of course there are guys that still do this but usually they are smaller outfits that cant afford to make mistakes.

Absolutely...