Lava Man to Dubai
 

Is this old news? I just read about it on drf.com (http://www.drf.com/news/article/83183.html)
This move makes no sense to me at all.
KEEP HIM IN CALIFORNIA!!!

altho many think he should stay where he's been so successful--why not take the chance? yeah, he's winless when shipping, but he bounces right back when he gets home.
besides, you don't know if you don't try.


good luck in dubai lava man! we'll be rooting for ya!

c'mon, you know you'll pull for him.

But, those other races he lost were on dirt, no ? Why not take a chance for a $5 mil purse ? Maybe he's bilingual ! This race will certainly be his last road trip if he underperforms, as they will have no cover.

lol he can ONLY beat up on glorfied high priced claimers in socal forever, yet they still decide to send him across to Dubai only to lose royally. Unreal

I will be cheering for him, but if he can't ship to the Midwest, how is he going to ship to the Middle-East?
There are plenty of good races in SoCal and his ability to win on dirt and turf means he could spend the entire year racking up G1s and G2s. Instead they are going to ruin a big chunk of his year on this pointless quest, after he has proven consistently that he does not like to leave SoCal. This makes no sense to me. Why not just be happy dominating both the turf and dirt older horse divisions in Cali? That is impressive enough fo me.

If he ships to Dubai he will never be the same horse when he comes back to SoCal. I will be the first to say that Lava Mans connections are NUTS and Lava Man is done. You can put a fork in him as soon as he ships.

i would go to churchill for the turf race there, he might run big on turf out of cali, and if he does then you can ship all over the country for big turf races... there are so many big grade 1 turf races with big purses, i dont see why there going to dubai with this guy

This purse is more than big I believe.

$5,000,000.

i realize that, but that trip to dubai ruins horses, and at this point they dont even know if he will ship. they can stay here, and if he ships well for the turf they can run in the woodford reserve, the manhatan, arlington million, united nations, and im sure there are a bunch out there in cali, there are also a few big one's at belmont in the fall

If he went to any of the races you have mentioned,he would get his ASS KICKED!!! Just like what will happen in Dubai

This is probably closer to the truth....

He will most likely get stroked in Dubai.

But I thought The Tin Man would get raped last year as well, and he got a good second.

wowowow i never said i like him, i did not say he would win those races i just think it's a better idea for the horse. i think showing up would run him off the track on the turf, anywhere in cali or anywhere i also think the tin man and english channel are alot better on turf along with a few others

Umm while I am just a tad prejudiced, Tin got a great second. Had to set all the pace because of a poor post and ran his guts out to barely get beat by a very nice horse. I am beyond shocked that they would ship Lava Man....must less to Dubai. With all of the races he could win here I am amazed.

Okay..... upped to great second from good second.

David Junior pissed on all of them though. Rudely, I might add.

While I still think that sending him to Dubai is a terrible idea, Danzig188 does make a good point here. The Dubai trip might not ruin him. Remember when they sent him to Japan? He ran his usual terrible race when shipped (finished 11th I think) but he bounced back and won the Sunshine Millions two months after that race, and then followed that up with six straight stakes wins that year including 4 G1s. He definitely hates shipping, but it does not really seem to affect his performance once he returns to SoCal.

Dubai is a bad idea, but this campaign would not make much sense either. He does not like going to Louisville or New York. I think he would fail there on the turf as much as he failed there on the dirt. The point is, this horse is so effective in SoCal, that it makes no sense to send him anywhere else, after he has proven repeatedly that he can't do it.

it does not ruin horses. look at the year invasor had after dubai! i think they only take so much time off for blueblood horses, give them plenty of time to get over their trip. his campaign last year was definitive proof that shipping to dubai doesn't mean a lost season.

ok it ruins SOME HORSES, its a risk that i dont think anyone should take, the only reasson they go there is for the $ campaign your horse over here and point to the breeders cup, it might not be a lost seasson IF he ships ok, but its definitly a lost 3-4 months.

some horses can ship, some can't. but to not ship any because some don't like it imo is silly. some horses can't run in the slop, should they cancel all racing over an off-track?
i don't think it ruins the horses. i think some just need more time to recover then others. if your horse is a good shipper, what the heck-go for it. if he's not, then don't.
and a lot of horses don't miss much time, i think 3-4 months is the exception, not the rule.

Right....but Lava Man isn't.

Lava Man has proved consistently that he's a good shipper BACK to California and can return to top form in California after a little rest (no more than 2 months). Both races off layoffs were Sunshine Millions Races (one after Japan and one after Churchill) and, in all honesty, in both Sunshine Races he looked like he needed the race badly as a prep for the more challenging SA 'Cap. I don't think that he's toast for his career or for this year by going to Dubai, but I do think that the connections are doing what is in their best interest (a free trip with all the trappings in Dubai) than in what is in Lava Man's best interests.

I DEFINITELY would take a shot at shipping him within the US for a turf race just to be certain beyond any doubt that shipping and not surface is his problem when he ships (4 races out of 37 don't make much of scientific example in shipping), but the Woodford Reserve would've been a dream spot for him to run. Churchill on Derby Day - National TV coverage - a Grade 1 - and possible soft competition. Plus he could get bute 24 hours+ before the race in KY and Lasix. Bad, bad move and O'Neill really should've taken a stand against this move to Dubai.

I felt that way before the Breeders Cup, but I'm pretty convinced that the reason he does so poorly has a lot to do with being shipped. Since he seems to do OK in California, this tells me that he probably has an issue with being put on an airplane. It has also been noted that he's a stall walker (which doesn't help the cause either.)

ditto, ditto, and ditto!

--Dunbar

I hope he does well and returns to Cal in one piece. Everything else is moot. If you're going to ship...go for the big prize. Why ship to Ky for a 500,000 puse Or Il for the Arlington Million when he doesn't ship well there either?? I can see both sides of this argument.

Thanks thats all I ask for.hehe Now come on Rudely??? maybe with a mean look on his face...yeah thats it. :D

This is a great idea. Why not go for the money. Dubai doesnt ruin as many horses as people think. We all know that Lava Man can't ship and win, but he can always return to SoCal and win. He will prob get his butt kicked in Dubai but cant fault the connections for trying.

You are assuming that if Lava Man runs his best his chances are the same in Dubai as they are in the Woodford Reserve. I don't agree with that assumption at all. Lava Man could ship to Dubai, run his best and still get his butt kicked. If he runs his best in the Woodford Reserve he would have a shot at winning and should at least run top three.

And its free to go. Lets not forget that! Take a free trip to Dubai to run for a shot at 5 Million. Hey, he isnt a good shipper, why not take the shot for 5 Mil, instead of 500k for the chance he just might hold his form on the grass.

And that is the single biggest reason that a lot of these people are going. They are willing to sacrifice their horse for several months for the free trip in first class accomodations. Just don't buy any of their BS that what they are doing is in the best interest of the horse.

The bigger question is....why ship him at all? It isn't like he only runs well at Fairmount Park so his connections are stuck if they want to make $$ and get him some big G1 and G2 wins.
He runs well at Santa Anita, Hollywood, and Del Mar. There are plenty of good races THERE for him to run in.

The way he's shipped, I don't know if he'd have a chance in the Woodford Reserve either. And if that's the case go higher. Personally I don't know if I'd ship him...but the owners have done well by this horse and want to do it. He's won them nearly 5 million dollars. I can't blame them. As I said...I see both sides. He's got this one nagging question of running outside Cal, and in my opinion they might as well try it. I wouldn't ship him at all other than the BC at the end of the year.

depends on how you look at it! i look at it as a good shipper doesn't get ill, lose a beat, etc. a bad shipper is one who is laid up for months after. some tho might think a good shipper is one who wins his race--but then he might be laid up for months after....so he's not really a good shipper.

lava man ships great-he just doesn't pay his travelling expenses til he gets back home!!:D

i take the opposite view, i prefer not to think that they're being so mercenary about it. i don't know that racing a horse should be viewed as sacrificing him. he doesn't do poorly after shipping, other than actual race day performance (thus far). he was off a few months after shipping to japan and back, but he seemed a tired horse before even going.
he's a racehorse, he's supposed to race. i think really they should be applauded for taking this guy world wide. so few don't when they could, when they should.

It's not the trip, it's the BUTE . He can't run without BUTE. Thats why he can't win outside of Cal. The soft competition in Cal doesn't hurt either. But it's not his fault no one from the east goes out to face him. Surf Cat will stomp him into a dirt hole if he can stay together long enough to face him.

i wish i had a dollar for every time someone claimed it was the bute. bute isn't limited to cali. of course that's been posted on here fairly often when the accusation is made. but some still cling to their urban myths i suppose.

bute: Short for phenylbutazone, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medication that is legal in most racing jurisdictions. Often known by the trade names Butazolidin and Butazone

that definition came from nyra.

I knew that would get a rise. Cal seems to be the only major league jurisdiction that allows it. I know it's not exactly hard drugs, more like aspirin, but he seems to be able to ship all over Cal and do well. Maybe he is just overmatched outside of Cal. I hope he wins in Dubai. Premium Tap has a shot in his race and he runs drug free.

i like premium tap, and am sorry to see him sold out of country. but i'll be pulling for invasor.

as for lava man, i'll be pulling for him. at least with horses like him and invasor you can root for them to win without worrying that they'll be retired as soon as possible. you get behind horses only to see them sent off to the farm. it's odd, we all want to see some really good horses, and gear up for the ky derby, knowing the eventual winner is too soon going to be off the scene.

You said It !

The problem is that some people look at the PP's and do not see a "B" beside the "L" and think that Bute was absent. Certain state's requirements do not require the reporting of Bute so it is absent from the PP's. Kentucky is an example. Lava Man ran under the same bute rules in CA and in KY for the Breeders' Cup..it can be administered no later than 24 hours before post time of the race. The dosage is the same, as well, I believe.