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Cajungator26 03-18-2007 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easy goer
It's also possible that his, (SS) running style is a function of Borel, who I guess likes to ride that close to the rail.

I was just thinking about that... that's also an interesting point.

pgardn 03-18-2007 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magic_idol
The shortest point From A to B is a straight line

Not if the line is drawn on curved surface. It is very tough to run tight turns fast. It takes a toll in energy. Look at some of these tracks with 5 f turf sprints (turf tracks usually being inside the dirt thus tighter turns) The horses have a hell of a time holding that turn sometimes and its hard unless a horse is really got a big muscular right side, a bit unbalanced based on our counter clockwise ways of running. Heck look a track athletes that run the 200m. Not many like the inside lane, even if the track is slanted (all good ones are) to allow gravity to play a role in holding them in that turn.

Dunbar 03-18-2007 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magic_idol
The shortest point From A to B is a straight line if your horse can handle the turn allways take the inside saves in distance a hell of alot,Some horses dont like being closed in so the outdside is better but mind the jockey they dont like sitting outside as it makes them look bad on TV

Your first sentence doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. The shortest distance between A & B may be a straight line, but the inside rail is the furthest path from a "straight line" of any, at least in the sense of curvature.

You quote pgardn, and then do not address at all the valid point he makes. It takes energy to make tight turns. This should be intuitively obvious to anyone who has applied the brakes to a car making a tight turn. I'm not sure how to quantify the effect for horses, but I suspect it must be a real effect for some horses. It's going to be less important at a big oval like Belmont than at a smaller track. I can remember horses almost skidding around the turns at Sportsmans Park.

--Dunbar

randallscott35 03-18-2007 08:34 PM

I give Borel credit, the guy has guts. Way too many jocks go wide every chance they get. Calvin understand geometry .

blackthroatedwind 03-18-2007 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
Calvin understand geometry .


What do you think his score on the Math SAT was?

randallscott35 03-18-2007 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
What do you think his score on the Math SAT was?

On the old one. LOL. Remember its out of 2400 now. When it was 1600 and math was 800, I'd guess his math score was 430 maybe.....Maybe he took the A C T?....

Cannon Shell 03-18-2007 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
Would it be fair to say that Hansel "bounced" in the Derby after running two huge races within five weeks of the Derby (track record in the Jim Beam and winning the Lexington Stakes)?

I honestly dont remember but I did bet him in the Preakness but can't remember why.

Cannon Shell 03-18-2007 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

I like your point about starting a horse's three-year-old season in a sprint race. I follow Australian racing, and top tier horses usually start a "preparation" (series of races) at 6F or 7F. No reason it could not be done here.

It was done here for about a hundred years

Cannon Shell 03-18-2007 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
Because he bounced in the Derby???????????

Maybe?

Cannon Shell 03-18-2007 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
The practice of not running them in sprints to begin their Derby preparations is relatively new, isn't it (10 years)?

It used to be customary for Florida three-year-olds to run in the Hutcheson Stakes to begin the season.

I thought that the Hutch would have been a great spot for Street Sense

Gulfstream did not always have the same dates as they used to switch with Hialeah. The Bahamas at Hialeah was also a race that was used as a starting point for many top three year olds.

ArlJim78 03-19-2007 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
It was done here for about a hundred years

For a quality route horse where there are no "can he get the distance" questions, I love to see a sprint under his belt before stretching out. I have this theory that it helps to get the stride rate up, and is great to build fitness.

I'm not a trainer but it just seems logical.

Cajungator26 03-19-2007 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
For a quality route horse where there are no "can he get the distance" questions, I love to see a sprint under his belt before stretching out. I have this theory that it helps to get the stride rate up, and is great to build fitness.

I'm not a trainer but it just seems logical.

I'm not a trainer either and have no clue, but couldn't that be accomplished in a bullet work?

ArlJim78 03-19-2007 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
I'm not a trainer either and have no clue, but couldn't that be accomplished in a bullet work?

To an extent , yes. But since workouts are generally never done at racing speed you don't get the full effect. At least that's the way it seems to me.
Maybe Cannon Shell can comment on that.

Dunbar 03-19-2007 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Gulfstream did not always have the same dates as they used to switch with Hialeah.

And before that, Hialeah had the choice early winter dates every year, with Gulfstream getting the later dates.

--Dunbar

Coach Pants 03-19-2007 12:43 PM

This might come out FUBAR...

Breeders� Cup Juvenile winners in 3-year-old debut
Year Juvenile winner date of return finish Race Derby finish
+2007 Street Sense 3/17 ? Tampa Bay Derby ?
+2006 Stevie Wonderboy 1/14 2nd San Rafael --
2005 Wilko 3/19 4th San Rafael 6th
+2004 Action This Day 2/8 4th Sham 6th
+2003 Vindication retired
+2002 Johannesburg 4/7 2nd Irish Group 3 8th
+2001 Macho Uno 7/25 2nd allowance --
+2000 Anees 3/19 3rd San Felipe 13th
+1999 Answer Lively 1/30 6th Lecomte 10th
+1998 Favorite Trick 3/14 1st Swale 8th
+1997 Boston Harbor 2/2 4th Santa Catalina --
1996 Unbridled�s Song 2/4 2nd Hutcheson 5th
+1995 Timber Country 3/4 3rd San Rafael 3rd
1994 Brocco 3/20 2nd San Felipe 4th
+1993 Gilded Time 11/6 3rd BC Sprint --
+1992 Arazi 4/7 1st French Group 3 8th
+1991 Fly So Free 3/14 1st Swale 5th
+1990 Rhythm 2/10 7th Hutcheson --
1989 Is It True 4/14 5th allowance --
1988 Success Express 1/27 3rd San Vicente--
+1987 Capote 4/4 4th Gotham eased
+1986 Tasso 3/15 1st $55,000 stakes ---
+1985 Chief�s Crown 3/2 1st Swale 3rd

Cannon Shell 03-19-2007 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
To an extent , yes. But since workouts are generally never done at racing speed you don't get the full effect. At least that's the way it seems to me.
Maybe Cannon Shell can comment on that.

Why work for free when you can run and get paid?

A sprint race would move a horse along a lot further than a fast work.


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