I liked Cloud Computing, but Classic Empire obviously ran the better race.

since we are talking about it after the fact its interesting to point out that horses that AD defeated in the Florida races have not come back to win I think. I have been following it all month. Couple even ran in allowance races and did not run a lick. One notable is that heavy favorite that ran at Monmouth last week.

agreed, looking back at it CC was the play. But Classic Empire was "the" horse.

I'm in NO WAY blaming JLep for losing the Preakness, as I wholeheartedly believe he rode a fantastic race ( that wins 9 times out of 10 ), but I truly believe he thought he put Always Dreaming and the rest of the field away while entering the stretch and had no clue that Cloud Computing was revving up UNTIL he looked to his left at the big screen in the infield. Shook the reins some more and by the time he turns his head to the right to gauge how close the other horse(s) were, it was then he realized how deep of doo-doo they were in.

That said, it really was a fascinating rendition of the second jewel. Loved it other than the damn show horse blowing up my tris/supers for the 2nd time in 2 weeks!

One of these days, I'll tell ya, one of these days! :D

6/10/17 - Belmont Stakes

Epicharis (Hagiwara/Lemaire)
Classic Empire (Casse/Leparoux)
Looking At Lee (Asmussen/I. Ortiz Jr.)
J Boys Echo (Romans/TBD)
Meantime (Lynch/Smith)
Multiplier (Walsh/Rosario)
Senior Investment (McPeek/Hill)
Tapwrit (Pletcher/J. Ortiz)
Twisted Tom (C. Brown/Casellano)
Gormley (Shirreffs/Espinoza)
Patch (Pletcher/Velazquez)
Irish War Cry (Motion/Maragh)

Thank you Steve for the deletion!


And that's a DOOZY of a probable list!


The final jewel is going to be a great race on a great card! Already foaming at the mouth to jump in with my waders on!

Conquest Mo Money (Hernandez/Carreno)

Man, i forgot about this but what was up with the passive ride on this horse in the preakness?

Terrible rider on the big stage? He's either out of his league or got the worst instructions ever.

+1

The smartest jockeys are the ones that ignore trainers instructions when it comes to riding a race.

Actually that was a brutally ridiculous ride. he rode is as if always and Dreaming was the only hoss in the race. he dogged him for no reason. He could have laid-back and took him whenever he wanted . He even looks back at the 3/8 pole like he knew that and dropped his head instead of waiting till the head of the lane , and then once taking the lead , instead of coming out in the middle of the track and at least make Castelletto make a decision to go inside or outside and at least TRY to make him come inside, he brings him right to the fence and gives Castellano a target. all he had to do was pitch out and lay on his hoss' head down the whole stretch. Instead he ends up having to bring him out just to see cloud computing coming. If the jockeys were reversed, Classic Empire wins by 2.

The real interesting guy to me is Multiplier. He was just staring to roll and had good energy when he got squeezed and lost momentum. He looks like he will relish the 12 furlongs. His Illinois Derby was very impressive.

I like J Boys Echo.

On DRF it was reported that Carreno said the gates opened as the horse was still fully loading.

Should Epicharis' chances be downgraded due to the Thunder Snow debacle (he was my bet in the Derby) and Master Plan's poor Peter Pan?

In regards to Epicharis, no need to judge anything off of Thunder Snow's antics in the Derby. The Peter Pan was run in a bog so one could be inclined to ignore Master Plan's performance as well. If you liked Epicharis coming out of the UAE Derby there is no reason, at least based off those two performances, to change opinion.

That's how I am going to look at it. I like this horse a bit in here, especially if he is double digit odds.

Why would his chances be downgraded? Unless Thunder Snow told him 'hey dude, we should have pact. Come out of the gate in whatever TC race they enter you in and start bucking...' what would that do for anything involving Epicharis? Thunder Snow's dad was a nut. Thunder Snow acted like a nut. (Well, people who knew the sire knew he did stuff that made this no surprise so I'm gonna slap the nut label on there).

He can say whatever he wants, but from the head on of the start, I see a horse standing still with a guy at his head. 'Still coming forward' my ass. Excuses excuses. Trainer acted like he wasn't fast enough early on that day so what are they gonna come up with next? Jockey blamed the start, but the start of Conquest Mo Money seemed fine. Now we hear he's going to Fair Hill for some sort of work with Tres Abbott but will run in Hernandez' name in the Belmont. http://www.drf.com/news/tres-abbott-...quest-mo-money I don't think CMM needs to find some zen. I think they're screwing around with a nice horse and blaming everybody but themselves.

Probably

No

I wouldn't worry about it. Thunder Snow didn't really run, and Master Plan ran on slop during a stretch where Pletcher's barn started to struggle badly.

His chances should be downgraded because he is a woefully slow horse.

Thunder Snow just ran second to Churchill in the Irish 2000 Guineas. I guess that Churchill is merely just a slow horse then?

Sir Barton 3rd True Timber, who had potential to prompt the pace, knocked out of Belmont by a fever..

I already love Multiplier. After hearing Brendan Walsh,I really love him.:{>:

He could be the bet of the year in the Belmont. Kind of like Creator , last year

Epicharis (Hagiwara/Lemaire)
Classic Empire (Casse/Leparoux)
Looking At Lee (Asmussen/I. Ortiz Jr.)
J Boys Echo (Romans/TBD)
Meantime (Lynch/Smith)
Multiplier (Walsh/Rosario)
Senior Investment (McPeek/Hill)
Tapwrit (Pletcher/J. Ortiz)
Twisted Tom (C. Brown/Casellano)
Gormley (Shirreffs/Espinoza)
Patch (Pletcher/Velazquez)
Irish War Cry (Motion/Maragh)
Hollywood Handsome (Stewart/Geroux)

I'm thinking Twisted Tom, Epicharis or Gormley will win this race with Irish War Cry, Jboys Echo also as viable options. Really liking T. Tom though.

looks like a lot of pace to me just looking at the names

wtf Taprwrit at lower odds than Gormley. Multiplier will then become my play for the Belmont

I like Tapwrit.

I'm not being a smart ass, or a dick, but what do you like Tapwrit to do? Run off the board?

More like Sarcastic smart ass dick, right ?
Next thing your gonna say is Multiplier isn't gonna gallop, right ?

No. I honestly don't know what people have seen in Tapwrit.

The horse that Epicharis beat by 12 at Mombetsu just won the Tokyo Derby by open lengths. Unfortunate to see he might have lameness issues.

A case could be made that he had trip issues in both the Bluegrass and the KD (and considering the horrific trip in the KD, he finished better than most in the field). If he runs his race and gets a decent trip he is definitely a win candidate.

Alternatively, he could easily find trouble, spit the bit, then finish the race beating only Epicharis home.

What Odds do you give of Epicharis finishing Dead Last?

I was being facetious, I honestly didn't think anyone would take that literally. He is a massive play against, but he's probably not the worst horse in the race.

What chances do you give Epicharis of going to the gate at 4-1?

I think he is 2-1 that hes not even in the gate Saturday. Being treated for lameness two days before a mile and a half race. I agree with you Dan he is a big play against here. I don't know what to do with this race but feel if Irish war Cry can run his race he will win this easy but that's a big if.

I was trying to see if you'd throw something out there maybe 3-1 ish and I'd offer to book it for you. Kitan seems to like him and I think he is pretty sharp with these Foreign horses. I think he floats up. I think there may be some that will dismiss out of hand and incorrectly based upon Thunder Snow's Derby

Thanks Tom, I hadn't seen that yet. Missed training this morning. There is no way he goes.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ness-treatment

Thunder Snow's derby had zero impact on my assessment. As bad as the US 3yo crop is, the horses Epicharis has faced internationally are even more dreadful.

I'm a little biased with this one because I saw him run live at Tokyo and 1) I haven't seen the other contenders up close and 2) it would be cool to say I saw the Japanese Belmont winner run! Besides that, he is much, much better (and less of a maniac) than Lani who I liked to an extent and wasn't disgraced at all in any TC race last year, particularly the Belmont which has a similar type of lack of strength this year. Will be very hard to bet Epicharis now even if he takes his place in the race, especially if he's a low price. The word I got from Japan was that it's a hoof injury that's gradually getting better after the medication, but participation is undecided.

Absolute bet against with this new Info..