I'm sure it has, I just can't recall any who had a real shot. Can you recall any? I'm sure that there had to be one or two. I know that Scrappy T was 2nd to AA. thats about all I can recall.

We cant recall many because they never win!

Good point!

Jaipur in 1962: owner George D. Widnener didn't nominate for the Derby, preferred to try to win more prestigious Belmont instead. Jaipur won Withers (then run on the same day as the Derby), came back 2 weeks later to try the Preakness (1st attempt at 2 turns) and finished way out of the money. He won the Jersey Derby on Memorial Day (on a disqualification) and then won the Belmont.

but we know that NOW, no one knew before the race unfolded how things were going to go.

I would be more inclined to side with the naysayers of Bernardini if he was just beating his fields or having to try real hard to get his victories, but come on people, this horse is winning these races in ridiculous ease, he looks like he's cantering down a bridle path for Gods sakes! I have had the awesome experience of seeing some great horses in my 30 plus years as a race fan. I live and breathe horses everyday of my life, I don't need to see anything else from my own two eyes to realize that this is indeed a very special horse.

It's too bad Albertrani can't put a gun to some trainers heads and make them enter against Bernardini, some people need drastic validation I guess.

I guess so...

He's not Pegasus. He's lost before and I'm sure he'll get beat again at some point in his career. I never said he wasn't a special horse... I'm just not willing to compare him to some of the all time greats just yet. He's never been challenged and I'm interested in seeing how he handles himself once he is (if he ever is :D .)

You are the man!! Thank you.

In 1997, A.P. Indy's brilliant son Pulpit was wowing fans from January through April; he was the favorite for the Derby that year. Having never run as a two-year-old, he was being rushed to the big day. He ran a gallant fourth, suffering a career-ending injury. I think Tom Albertrani and Sheikh Maktoum remembered Pulpit as they mapped out Bernardini's campaign.

Yeah, he lost his first start after hitting the gate, since than he's run in strictly stakes with no other horse getting within sniffing distance of him at the wire, 3 Grade 1's ..... but, I'm not convinced.

Not "the man", the woman.

Open Reply To Steve ...

Moderators should be moderate ... and understand that everyone here is an adult ... all of whom should be capable of dealing with whatever pixels may appear on their monitors.

"Bans" ... if they are to exist at all ... should be based on a specific set of rules ... clearly enunciated and understood by all ... not on the personal whims of a muscle-flexing "moderator." Football can't be played with moving goalposts ... and members of this forum shouldn't have to fear arbitrary expulsion based on the on-the-fly impulses of a sole arbitor.

My take: Short of persistent vulgarity and physical threats ... I don't believe anyone should be "banned" ... and certainly not for using the word "imbecile" and objecting to its deletion. Far worse things are posted on nearly every thread. As such ... I strongly disagree with the ban on Dixie.

It's your spaldeen ... and you can determine who plays with it ... but an atmosphere of interference and intimidation makes the entire concept much less palatable.

Nope, he already beat him by 15 in the Preakness.

Hey Phil,

Nice to see you back ... keep on posting.

Classic. And so true. Even Lava Man's trainer says that based on figures, he knows that Lava Man is going to have to step up and run a career best race to beat Bernardini.

Hell have to run a career best to hit the board. He can forget about winning

Thank you.

So what are we to do if he's never challenged? Obey pgardn's rules of constantly writing off his competition and never call him great? That's basically like saying he's too good to be considered great.

I'm sorry, but I can't call a horse "great" until he's proven he's great. So shoot me... we disagree on Bernardini. Can we agree to disagree? If he wins the BCC, I'll jump on his bandwagon with the rest of you guys, but seriously... this is ludicrous to call him the GOAT.

I'm not shooting you. I'm asking you a question. What if he's never challenged? Can he never be called great? Because that's how pgardn feels and I think that's ridiculous.

Lets take pgardn's toys away.

Jesustapdancingchrist.

If hes never challenged in the BCC and wins then yes you can still call him great. But don't count on him not being challenged. Invasor ain't Hemingway's key.

If he blows through the BCC field like he's done the past several races, then yeah, he's pretty amazing. He can only race what shows up... not his fault if others are freaked out. He'll be up against a lot more in the BCC than he has been all year and yes, you could call him great if he beat all of them in a similar fashion.

Nor is Invasor Dylan Thomas. Where did they get that goat? They should give him a long rest and point him towards the Fairplex 2007 meet.

Tim hes a European classic winner and he just didn't like the dirt.
Thats a little bit steep wouldn't you say?

I would still find it hard to call a horse great based on the 1 race. But then I have a problem with the whole Breeders Cup concept.

I would rather see him race as a 4 year old; maybe even take a few defeats, but it would depend on how he raced in those defeats.
Seattle Slew completed his Triple Crown undefeated. But what he did as a 4 year old is what I really remember. He faced the best: won 2 and lost 2.

I was kidding. Maybe Calder is a better fit for him. The turf course is lush and green. He needed binocs to see Bernardinis fat ass.

BB,

Dixie wasn't benched because of the use of the word imbecile.. He got it for rude and belligerent responses to the editing of the post that included the word imbecille (as directed at a poster as opposed to an opinion)... I agree with the basic premise that being sent to the penalty box here needs to have solid and defined parameters. Those parameters are that of propriety and civility as determined by Joey, Bethani and myself. Not by whim or capriciousness...

Your objection, and undoubted exception, are noted and appreciated. Only one person has been "banned" from Derby Trail, and only 2 have received benchings. Many others have been asked to utilize better judgement in their responses to confrontational situations. I believe that the vast majority of Derby Trailers are comfortable with the way in which the moderators are conducting the administration of the Forum, and invite further comment on the topic by community members.

Steve

*Raises hand.* I'm guilty of the better judgement calls. :o

Maybe fines would work better!

I just wouldn't want this forum to become like the "other" one ... which was ruled over by a coven of shrill harpies ... who tossed out "bans" with the same abandon as medieval popes hurled anathemas ... and for any reason or un-reason which struck their estrogen-driven fancies and fantasies.

That forum ... by the way ... collapsed because of that ...

... and a few of the same harridans are now much more demure members of this one.

And as far as Dixie goes ... I think moderators should have much thicker skins ... and much more forbearance ... than was on display in that little brouhaha.

Onward and upward ...

This thread makes pretty cool reading as far as reflecting back on what we were all thinking 4 weeks ago before the cup.

I forgive them for they are young and know not what they do.
Been thru this so many times before with other horses...

Pope Pgardn III

I wonder who the salty little girl is now, sorry couldn't resist...

My favorite part is the 25 second furlong.

I detract my post.

No sense in fighting with hurt egos.

I deleted mine as well, this was not a moderator thing, but my doing...

You guys are confusing the crap out of me...

Doesn't take much on a day like today... AHHH!!! :eek:

What happened was I posted up some juvenile comments calling out the Bernardini lovers, Steve Deleted them, I made another dumb comment about it being deleted. Steve put them back up, but he was right, they served no use. It's easy for me to chest thump now, but like everything else in this game you are not nearly as smart as you think are and it's easy to be so after the fact. So I went back and deleted my comments that were deleted and then put back up...Make Sense, because now I think I am confused...:confused:

Makes sense... :D

I will admit that some of the posts made regarding Bernie before the classic were quite comical, but I'm more impressed with this colt after his loss than I was before. That's so typical of me...

Oh well... he's on to make little baby Bernie's. :D

My post was totally mild mannered but I think Ateam was not to keen on it because it gave insight to how my comments were distorted. No biggie. Some egos cant handle logic.