I've argued for years that the Beyer on the Count Fleet was flat out wrong. They can't necessarily be taken at face value, you know that.

I've argued for years that the 2004 Kentucky Derby is a complete throw out due to the hurricane like rain that hit Churchill less than an hour before the race. That race can't necessarily be taken at face value, you know that.

No argument against that, completely agre. Was the equivalent of this year's BC. Still... the two best probably ran 1-2. Maybe Birdstone or the Cliff's Edge gets a piece if it's dry instead of Imperialism, and perhaps the race is a little faster against the clock (which, to be fair, was a pretty fabricated Beyer, as it had to be.)

How about Dance Smartly, she would be the only one undefeated as a 3 yr old on the list.

I like that inclusion, even if she wasn't necessarily amongst the FASTEST 25. In terms of accomplishments, a Cdn TC, BC Distaff, and 4 other stakes is pretty impressive.

Groovy absolutely did flop bigger IMO. The first year, he failed to hit the board at odds-on in a nine-horse field. The second year, he got outrun to the front again and again, lost at odds-on. That was the deal with him. No lead, no win. I don't get why it's unfortunate luck for Groovy having had to come to CA in successive years but it's not for Fog having to go to NY after flying back and forth across the country 13 times in one year. Groovy, like Fog, was a fringe contender for HOY in 1987 and he lost. I understand that Groovy ran some outstanding races outside of the BC. So did Fog. In fact, because of Groovy going 130+ in back to back races, that makes his flops even bigger.

Housebuster was good. I'm not saying he wasn't. Personally, I thought of him more as a brilliant miler than a brilliant sprinter. I know he lost to Unbridled in Florida in a sprint. He beat Black Tie Affair in the Carter and lost to him in the Commonwealth. What do BTA and Unbridled have in common? They were BC Classic winners and neither would be confused with the top sprinters over the years. He beat Clevor Trevor a couple of times, in the DeFrancis and the Forego. Clevor Trevor was another more known for his exploits at distances beyond 8f. The DeFrancis was a great race for him and showed he was a top class sprinter without a doubt. He beat Safely Kept in that race. I always felt though that the 1990 Met Mile was his best race.

Black Tie Affair was third in the BC Sprint.....right?

Groovy ran credibly in the BC Sprint at SA when he was " off the board " but still finished a pretty close 4th. When second the following year he lost to a horse, Very Subtle, who I believe you earlier referred to as a pretty special horse ( I happen to agree with that ). Lost in the Fog got absolutely drowned at Belmont in the BC Sprint in the only time he faced a tough field. Groovy beat the mighty Turkoman, at 7F no less, as a 3YO in the Forego at Saratoga. This was following a campaign so ridiculous that he even raced in the Kentucky Derby a few months earlier.

By your own admittance you didn't follow racing that closely in 1986. Unless you did, and I am mistaken, you might want to find Groovy's lifetime pps before you dissect him too extensively. I don't disagree, necessarily, with you that he was a need the lead type. But I think if you saw all the BS he went through in his storied career you would have, at least, a slightly different opinion of him overall.

Not to mention she raced against the colts 4 times that year including the Molson Million, no doubt if we are to include other fillies as Xtra Heat, Serena's Song, Winning Colors, and Go For Wand on the list, I agree she fits the bill also.

You're right... she should have been included.

Not even pedigree snobs can compete with BSF snobs...

In your sort of desperate attempt to do God knows what you are completely missing the point.

The Beyers are just a reasonable way to compare horses that never had a chance to race against each other for whatever reason. I have no problem if anyone wants to use other speed figures, and surely there are some that others use here, but the Beyers are the most accessable.....and therefore easiest to use for comparison purposes here. That's all. We are just trying to compare horses.

The agenda here is by you to discredit something you don't understand. Nobody here is promoting Beyer figures.

13 pages and the most obvious horse of all hasn't even been mentioned...




























































lol lol lol

I love that quote from Warren Buffett...

What about adding Medaglia D'oro to the list...

I'm running out of space. :D

I think my list needs a revision. :o

Best Euro 3yos.

Dalakhani
Sinndar
Rock of Gibraltar
High Chapparal
Peintre Celebre
Dubai Millennium
Russian Rhythm
Ouija Board

What about Giants Causeway and Galileo?

nashwan was a pretty useful 3yo.

For the Dubai Millenium lovers

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Td5YxLIaxqs

Dubai Millennium Won 2 G1s and a G2 at 3.

And absolutely cruised home in all.

Thanks for that video link. I will never forget what he did to Sendawar.

Europes Champion Miler, couldnt lay a glove on him.

Who remembers that Sendawar went off the favorite?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvpM9F5w30g

This is what the great ones look like when they are asked to run.

Has to be on that list.

I agree.

That horse just skipped over the ground when he ran. It looked like he was running on air and never really exerting himself.

Am I the only one sensing a Black Widow circling its prey?

that video made me cry

Greg Gilchrist has an incredible filly right now. She was my favorite HIP # from Fasig Tipton Calder sale last year. Something fairly significant showed up on her x-rays though. She had two incredible races last year, and then must have gotten injured. I hope she makes it back to the track. One to watch if she comes back. Her name is Indyanne.

A filly named High Resolve is in his barn right now as well, and she is undefeated. 5 for 5 so far. They are really spotting her right. She's pretty nice too, but I don't think she is nearly as talented as Indyanne.

Makes me cry everytime I watch it

He was special, his greatness will never be realized

2yo w103-w109-w102

3yo w105-w105-w110-w107-w116-w105-w114

BC forward
OTB98-2nd97-w111-OTB87

I am probably the biggest Lost in the Fog fan in the world. He was my favorite horse and what drew me into horse racing. I was there for his debut at GGF and have been amazed ever since. He was a remarkable horse that possessed the unfair combination of talent and heart.

The competition that he faced wasn't as bad as most say. He just made them look bad.

His career was short but dynamic. The 48,000 purchase had a 109 beyer as a 2 year old, won his first 10 races, dominated the competition in the Carry Back (116 beyer) a full second faster than those running in the Smile. When his body was full of cancer, he posted a 112 beyer in winning the Aristides against Golden Shaheen winner Kelly's Landing. "He probably had it the last three or four times he ran," Gilchrist said. "There were 100 pounds of tumors in that horse when they did the autopsy on him."

In regards to his Breeders Cup loss, Aleo believes Lost In The Fog may have been exposed to something harmful at Belmont Park that ignited the cancer before he ran in the Breeders' Cup.

"I'm sure it happened back there," he said. "Two stalls from him, there was a champion filly from Canada that ran bad the same day. And she died a month before The Fog with the same cancer. There was some rumor that they sprayed for rats or something, but I know he wasn't right that day, and so did Greg. He lunged out at me, and he never did that before. He put a bruise on my chest a foot in diameter. That's one of the symptoms of a sick horse"

I am not willing to say he was one of the best 3 year olds of the past 20 years because I don't have the same historical perspective as other, but he was a remarkable horse that could possibly have been one of the all time greats if he was allowed to prove it.

For a great article: http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-10-26/n...comes-the-fog/

This is some pretty ridiculous and irresponsible garbage.

I know he just misses the year range but there were few 3 year olds that were as good as this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-MRD9QutB8

You have to admit thats a mighty big coincidence that a horse two stall away from him died from the same cancer that only about 3 in a 1000 horses get.

What was the horse's name? Where is the report that backs this up? Were they the only two affected? What other possible reasons could Lost in the Fog have developed cancer?

I could go on and on. The owner gets slack because he's elderly.....but that doesn't mean it isn't BS and irresponsible. I don't believe one word of it.

I did some research just for the last 15 minutes. The fillys name is Knights Templar.

"one trainer i work for (danny vella) trained a filly named Knights Templar... this filly was the 2yo filly of the year in canada last year and went to the breeders cup. while stabled for the breeders cup she was right beside lost in the fog..... and she was euthanized a few weeks ago for the exact same type of cancer. "

http://equination.net/forum/viewtopi...1d865cff521363

That certainly backs Aleo up.

And what did the research tell you? Was it confirmed she died of cancer?

Heres a report. Yes she died of cancer. The same type.

Two deaths with unclear link
By JAY HOVDEY
The odds that two Thoroughbreds from opposite sides of the continent could spend less than a week stabled next to each other in unfamiliar surroundings and then be killed by the same rare equine disease less than one year later are staggering.
Lost in the Fog and Knights Templar, both born and raised in Florida, were housed in the same out-of-the-way corner of Barn 11 on the Belmont Park backstretch in the days leading up to the 2005 Breeders' Cup World Championships. Lost in the Fog was taking his sterling 10-0 record into the Breeders' Cup Sprint as a heavy favorite, while Knights Templar was going into the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies off a 13 1/4-length romp in the Mazarine Stakes at Woodbine.
They both lost their races, but that did not stop their admirers from stepping up at the polls. Lost in the Fog won the Eclipse Award as North America's best sprinter, and in Canada, Knights Templar was hailed with a Sovereign Award as champion 2-year-old filly. The future looked bright.
"We had some incredible offers for her going into the Breeders' Cup," said Danny Vella, a two-time Sovereign Award winner as Canada's leading trainer, who owned Knights Templar in a partnership group called Clover IV.
"We decided, though, that this was the type of filly we'd wanted all our lives," Vella said. "We loved her, and we wanted to race her and breed her. Who knows? She might have even gone to Lost in the Fog, since he was probably heading to stud in Kentucky."
Such dreams have disappeared now, like tears in rain. Lost in the Fog died last Sunday in his stall at the Golden Gate Fields stable of trainer Greg Gilchrist. Some six weeks earlier, on July 27, Knights Templar took her last breath at Woodlands Farm, in Hillsburgh, Ontario, about a 45-minute drive from Vella's stable at Woodbine. Both young horses shared the same grim fate, wracked with lymphatic cancer and mercifully euthanized to prevent further suffering.
It was in early May, not long after she finished second in the Star Shoot Stakes at Woodbine, that Knights Templar started showing symptoms of a virus that never seemed to let go.
"We biopsied a lot of her lymph nodes when it started to get really bad, and it was a 100 percent diagnosis," Vella said. "Steroids kept her comfortable for a period of time. But she more or less wilted away and got to a point where she was so weak we had to put her down. We had talked about chemo and all that, but for me, it was pretty tough. I'd just gone through it all with my wife before losing her last year to cancer."
Danny and Theresa Vella had been married 28 years.
"You see it happen with a person, and they can make their own decisions," Vella said. "But with a horse, you like to have a little more common sense, especially when there's really nothing you can do. I went out to Woodlands to see her fairly often. The visits were hard. But in your heart, you knew you had to do it. Being a true champion, she was happy to the end."
Knights Templar was immediately cremated. Lost in the Fog, however, underwent an autopsy on Monday at the University of California at Davis, where his malignancies were first discovered in mid-August.
"The vet said, 'Greg, you have no idea how tough this horse was,' " Gilchrist reported Tuesday evening. "Not only would a normal horse have been dead two or three months ago, it was amazing this horse kept his presence, kept eating and drinking. One of the tumors was the whole length of his back, and was starting to wind itself around his spine."
Vella contacted Gilchrist during Lost in the Fog's ordeal, if only to share what Knights Templar had been through. The idea that a horse could "catch" cancer was pretty far-fetched.
"I'm doing a bit of research into it with some veterinarians that specialize in internal medicine," Vella said. "So far, all I've heard is that there's never been any research done on that type of thing with horses. But with people and with cats I'm told there is some association with a type of virus.

I'm adding one more to my list.

If Strike the Gold, Hansel, Best Pal and Corporate Report had been born another year, Mane Minister would have won the Triple Crown in 1991.

He also would have doubled his number of lifetime wins. Mane Minister makes my list.

I'm thinking about adding Hawkster as well for his efforts in 1989 when he ran 5th in each TC race (arguably harder than Mane Minister's achievement).

He's right about the filly dying of the same lymphoma and where they were stabled... but I don't buy the reason given by Aleo. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY they would spray a potentially carcinogenic substance into the Belmont barns with hundreds of millions of horseflesh soon to be stabled there (let alone ANY horses).

That is the one. Trained by Mark Casse, won a couple stakes at Woodbine.