Fair point, and true. He did middle move a bit there... but today's was more pronounced in my opinion. The inside run down the backstretch never seems to work in the Derby.

then take it up with mott, who said after hold me backs first start this year that he wanted to keep him on syns, that he didn't want to put him back on dirt. that he 'didn't have a straw in his path' in the remsen where he ran sixth and felt the horse didn't like dirt. it's in bloodhorse, look it up. i posted what mott said as a warning to those picking him for today. if the trainer doesn't like him on natural, why would anyone else?

I just sent him a PM. Hopefully he responds and I'll let you know what he says.

The chart does a good job of describing his performance... "make a good long run along the inside down the backside."

If they time that move better, he'll win some races.

POTN has now beaten the winner of the Illinois Derby, Arkansas Derby(beat him on syn n' dirt by a remarkably similar distance,) Blue Grass, Lands End, Louisiana Derby, U.A.E. Derby, Tampa Bay Derby, and he's beaten the horse who ran a decent 2nd in the Florida Derby. Oh, he also beat the winner of the Gotham and Wood Memorial. He beat that individual twice. So, I don't think he deserves all that's been said about him (good by J White, nor bad by the cavalry.) Today's race was decent. It did appear one horse liked it more than the others. I mean he showed up. He didn't just do nothing (like the favorite etc.) Gomez made the right choice, too. He went with the more seasoned horse, and the other one tripped on his own . Matter of fact, all 3 of the horses behind the Derby winner probably deserve more credit than they get, because all three of them show up and give 100% each race. Baffert's had this horse for 5 races. He's won two Grade 1 races. He's won two Grade 2 races. Then he ran 2nd in the biggest 3 year old race in the World(when given a wet dirt track that who knows whether any of them particularly liked.) So, he's handled turf, dirt, and synthetics. If you run 2nd in the marquee Grade 1 race for 3year olds (on dirt,) then it seems childish for grown people to call you "Pioneer of Nothing."

he already has won some. i think he should go back to where he has the most success. obviously the good three year olds will try the derby, which is what they did with hold me back. but i think his future successes are on where he's had all his success-and that's not on dirt.

and you sent bill mott a pm??

I puked....a lot.

Why? Because he got fed up with the same question over and over and over? He deserves a medal for punking that jackass.

They should have asked him about the MCL he won with this year. His only other win this year.

I'll take a mediocre horse thats earned just shy of 3 million dollars and runs his eyeballs out everytime out, over all the supposedly faster horses who never seem to show up when facing him. It is complete lunacy to call this horse a mediocrity, what than is Dunkirk? I Want Revenge, Fresian Fire and everyone else finishing BEHIND him?

I see that Haskin wrote this on Thursday...
I'd probably almost take the credit for picking him to win it if I'd said something like that, will be interesting to see if he does.

?
again....you guys are taking this race, over that track, as a true accounting of these horses abilities.
good luck with that. you going to bet mine that bird in the preakness?

I sure as he'll won't feel like an idiot or delusional to bet on POTN again , as I see it he's as good as any 3 year old colt in the country, FAR from a mediocrity, as for MTB , it's likely this performance is like Dust Commanders win , he has a lot more to prove than POTN, but on the day he ran the best race, that doesn't mean there are not a lot of nice colts in that field still maturing and physically developing and weren't ready to run the race of their life on this day and time, on a gooey thick track in crowd. There's several steady consistent colts in here and it's ludicrous to assume they've all reached their peak, Forego was an also ran in his Derby. I hate this glass half-empty mentality after every race, if we fans can't appreciate our horses, how can we get upset about the lack of outside interest?

"small time" people :rolleyes: gives hope to us like Dee Tee that the little guys in the sport can win! I find this group MUCH more worthy that last year's in the slick black suits.

Sadly, I'm starting to see Sightseek's point- these owners are nothing like the DeeTee crew, who are not allegedly bribing legislators and don't have a quarter of a million to spend on horses.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/67394.html

Son of a b*tch. Well, at least I can still love Calvin.

(Darn you, Sightseek, and your excellent people instincts!) ;)

Interesting.....but, I think she was talking thier appearance and what he said in the winner's circle. I guess they do have something in common! But, Calvin's ride on SWLY at Saratoga was nowhere near as good as his Derby victories....if fact, I think he didn't really gave her a good chance that day.

You are right. No one cared all week long about his horse. The only question was about that drive with the horse. He got fed up cause even after winning the derby by such a huge margin, that's what they were still asking about. I can't imagine how they must have felt! So much for Sheik Mo, Winstar, Zayat and co. Ya can't buy a Derby.

I know you were talking about Sheik Mo's Godolphin operation but Sheik Hamdan, his brother, was at the Derby in 06 and saw his horse, Jazil, pull a similiar move as yesterday up the rail to finish 4th. He has been a bit more successful but then he doesn't pull the horses away once they are doing well.

did jazil ship to dubai and back? i don't think he did.
hamdan seems the savvier of the two.

I didn't think he belonged but he was 2 yr old Canadian champ and was bred very well for the slop. Let's not discredit the performance on this day.

you are right. I think Sheik Mo is trying to make Dubai a stop on the derby trail for his country and gets influenced away from what's best for the horse. He does love his horses though as the book about Dubai Mellenium attests to.

I sure hope everyone doesn't buy into the media's need to trash these people just because they can. One guys father was doing the wheeling and dealing and is awaiting sentencing on bribery. But "small time" or not, it is a great story. Let's at least give them some time to enjoy this and give them a tip of the cap for a job very well done.

Not quite sure what this a reference to, but Dubai Millennium died in the middle of his first breeding season.

As for people talking about sending horses to/from Dubai...no one seems think that getting there is a major hassle considering Well Armed, Curlin, Invasor, Pleasantly Perfect, Cigar, etc etc had no problems shipping THOUSANDS of miles and winning some big prizes.

People want to keep living their own myths about some Dubai "curse" or whatever...go on if you must, but it's not there.

Godolphin horses have tried seven times in the Derby over five different races and have no wins. The same could be said for...say...sending your horses to Todd Pletcher...

he was talking about a book written about dubai millenium.

as for horses going to dubai and back, more often then not you see people talking about how long it takes them to return to form, and how it knocks them out for a few months sometimes. the sheik had a horse he shipped over here who ended up dying from what they call shipping fever. another horse shipped from here to there came back, came down with colic and died. it's harder on the horses then you seem to think. the thing most criticize the sheik about is not that he ships from dubai to here. but that he ships these horses back and forth several times before attempting the derby. it is draining. he's had some good horses-some of whom that many feel would make a greater impact if they didn't have to repeatedly go thru quarantine and shipping.

Godolophin has a problem and its Saeed Bin Surror. The guy cant manage/train horses. He is the Dubai's version of Todd Pletcher. He gets loads and loads of regally bred horses and may produce 1 or 2 good winners out of them.

It was a book about a horse he owned and the difficulty he faced when the horse died. Since his death he actually has pursued every one of the offspring, bought them and pensioned them out to different farms. It is an approach. Many of the horses you speak of Well Armed, Curlin, Pleasantly Perfect, Cigar were not three yr olds when they went over. Invasor ran there at three, faced his only lose but had shipped there from Uraguay. Indian Blessing recently scratched out of a race as she was a bit dull in her works since coming back from Dubai. It isn't that it can't be done but when you are talking about 3 year olds, it is a very tough process for them. It requires alot of maturity.

I've been thinking about the Derby and think I now understand how it happened. Consider the following scenario:

A horse who had previously won races running on/near the front end misses the break, stumbles, or is squeezed back, drops several lengths back behind the next-last horse and you think "well, he's toast." Yet lo and behold, same horse finds a new dimension, and comes roaring down the stretch to win, or just miss. No one knew he had it in him, least of all the rider and trainer. Doesn't happen every day, or every month, but we have all seen it happen.

So yesterday it happened in the Kentucky Derby. Not going to happen again in our lifetime, most likely. Especially not without a patented Calvin Bo-Rail unimpeded passage on the best part of the track. The races that Mine That Bird won to be named champion 2yo in Canada were won by being forwardly placed, within a few lengths of the leader. Nobody could have logically predicted that he was capable of that kind of finishing kick from the next county. And although his pedigree hinted that he would move up on mud, he hadn't had the opportunity to display it. A sort of perfect storm of circumstances.

You got me....I have this terrible bias against cowboy hats! :rolleyes:

Which is why I said she had good people instincts. :D

I wasn't being clear about Borel- I meant that he's one of those people in the game it's easy to root for. (Though clearly I don't let silly sentiments like that factor into my wagers as my win bet was on Desert Party and see how well that worked out!)

Yep, the old "get a lemon and make lemonade" scenario.

Someone else posted smartly elsewhere around here that Calvin may not have felt as comfortable to be as personally creative had he been riding a more expensive or favored horse for "more established" connections. I essentially concur.

Taking Mine That Bird back so far would have left lots of room for 2nd guessing on a favored horse had he not been successful.

Regardless, now that 30 hours or so have passed I am confident that Borel's ride in the 2009 Kentucky Derby will be one I'll enjoy watching and thinking about in years to come.

Watch last year's Derby if you don't think Borel would have done that on a more expensive or favored horse for "more established" connections.

who did he ride last year?

Denis of Cork.

ok, thanks. i couldn't remember, and i'm too tired, lazy and cranky to look it up.
so sick of doing other peoples' jobs at work.

The all time unbeaten mark is at least 54, the number of races won by the Hungarian wonderhorse Kincsem. And she was winning Derbies and races that are today European G1s. "All time" includes all of Thoroughbred racing history, not just the last 50 years.

Hungarian? Pfft.

That's (Ga)bor-ing.

;)

Just thought it was worth mentioning that Mine that Bird further destroyed two of the supposed myths about the Derby:

-can't win with only two preps.
-can't win if your last start was more than four weeks out.

Hadn't Barbaro, Big Brown and Street Sense done a number on those "myths" as well?

NT

Hence the reason why I said "further" destroyed them, less anyone think that those winners were exceptions to the rules.