It's not everyday you see a horse equal a track record in a handride...

I like the splits best of all, a mile in 1:33 at BEL with Borel standing up, unreal. 1:34 in the Haskell. She is amazing.

Or maidens go 108.3. I have your Sightseek photo. Will PM you.

As far as what, who had a better year? Thats the question right, not who was better per say, but who had a better year?

Let's do some poetry

..God created Dirt
..God Created Grass
..Man created Plastic
..I'm still believe in God..

Hoty In Poetry
 

Let's do some poetry

..God created Dirt
..God created Grass
..Man created Plastic
..I'm still believe in God..

Undoubtedly yes. Street Cry, Lido Palace, and Left Bank were all very good but get "incompletes". I was a big fan of Street Cry- he won the Dubai World Cup and the Stephen Foster that year, and had a chance to win HOY, but finished a mediocre 3rd in the Whitney. Left Bank beat him, and won Older Male, but he only ran 4 times with three wins (Bold Ruler, Tom Fool, and Whitney) and got buried in the Met Mile. I think that says a lot. Nobody really stepped forward and earned it. Milwaukee Brew didn't even make the ballot and I thought he deserved at least a chance, he won the SAH & Californian, and finished 3rd in the Pac Classic and BCC.

Is this some kind of trick question???

She's the only female to win HOY while never facing the boys. She was definitely the best horse in America in 2002, regardless of sex, but could have easily lost the HOY vote if one of the males had done just a little more. If you haven't noticed... it's VERY hard for fillies/mares to win HOY. Not only do they have to be outstanding, but every male category has to be mediocre. This year is an exception because bar none, the two best horses in America are both female.

Ducked coming east? You don't know the Moss' well. They had all the reservations and plans in to come to the Beldame if Rachel was going to be there. She ran her best on the oaklawn dirt. If there was a legit opportunity to duck it would have been the classic with EVERYTHING on the line. Both horses are great and will go down in history. You can make a case for each one or for splitting the trophy. I prefer the latter in view of their incredible contributions to the sport.

OH, well thanks for clearing this up!:zz:

i find that very, very hard to believe considering their comments for most of the year that the bc was in cali, and they saw no reason to leave before that race in late fall.

the fact is that neither camp made much effort to face the other. the 'blame' lies on all their shoulders.

"And oh yeah, winning this country's premiere race for three-year-old fillies by 20 lengths. Imagine if a colt won the Derby by 20. Imagine anyone winning a GI by 20. They make HBO movies about that kind of thing."

Mr. Brown needs a history lesson. The Kentucky Oaks is not our premier race for 3yo fillies and never has been. For decades, the real American Oaks (sponsored by the Coaching Club of America) has been run at a real classic distance, either 10f or 12f. And after the CCA Oaks, the Alabama has always had more prestige than the KY Oaks. You do realize that when grading was introduced, the Ky Oaks was only a G2? While the Monmouth Oaks and the Cotillion H at Liberty Bell were G1s? Just because it is run during Derby week doesn't mean that the Ky Oaks is a comparable race.

One could argue that the distance of her win at Churchill was assisted by the sloppy track; fields are always more spread out on off tracks.

Who needs a history lesson when we're talking about the present?

Are you telling me that the CCA Oaks, which has invariably drawn a 4-horse field in the last decade or so, is still the premiere race for 3yo fillies?

I think what is needed here is a NEWSFLASH...

The sad part of that convenient cover story is that Zenyatta could have won HOY by coming out for the Beldame with or without Rachel Alexandra.

Assuming she won, she would have defeated multiple Grade 1 winner Music Note on regular dirt, would have won one of the top races for older fillies in this country (which would have given her a grand total of 2 counting the Vanity--the other two being prep races), would have had a chance to validate her trainer's assertions that she's "better" on dirt, and would have been able to claim a "coast to coast" campaign.

Another interesting question, had she run against Rachel Alexandra during the season, would her connections have still run her in the Classic?

I remember the rain that day, but it stopped early and the track was listed as "fast" when bullsbay won the Alysheba two races before the Oaks was run.

This ain't 1973. The Kentucky Oaks is the #1 race for 3 year old fillies, end of story. The CCA Oaks has a much better chance of getting cancelled in the next decade than returning to prominence. And it wasn't sloppy...