Actually, Frankel said publically that he didn't vet him before buying him. However, I'm quite sure the Sheik did.....especially after he consulted with Fischer.

i could make a lot of wealthy kings more wealthy and more successful in their hobbies...
:D



...but this seeing a 3 legged horse is nothing special.

But can't you say that Godolphin has been relatively successful wintering their European campaigners in Dubai prior to the start of the regular Euro season?

Shieks brother's spending spree
 

Per DRF

Maybe he is hoping one will work out so he can have one decent stallion standing at Shadwell?

As far as whether or not they (Darley) are buying "the right kind of horse" -- well, that could be a debate that goes on and on forever. The results can only speak to one conclusion. Regardless and aside from the horses, I think it's a valid question as to whether or not it's a good idea to have 2yo's here in the US, ship them overseas, prep them over there, and then bring them back for the Derby or TC. I think it's hard enough to win the Derby regardless of where and how you try it, and doing it the Darley way appears to make it substantially tougher.

My take is that even if a horse comes a long and does it -- that doesn't add any more credibility to the position that it's a good idea. Just because one horse does it, doesn't make it a good idea. Possible vs. feasible vs. effective? Perhaps.

I guess wanting to do it "his way" is just as good a reason as any -- for him that is.

Eric

They have been reasonably successful in Europe but they have a "season" where we don't. Apart from some minor regional stuff on PolyTrack, there is not racing over the winter. The season goes from April to October. In April a Euro horse coming up to the big races has been away for a few months followed by legging up and possibly a start before the Guineas, the first Classic. Many of the horses in the Guineas are making their seasonal debut. They are all at the same disadvantage in terms of lack of racing and all make the classics in about the same manner.
Here we begin the 4 month run-up to the Derby on Jan 1st. By the time we get to the Derby our colts have several races often tough "character builders" in advance of the big day.
While you can win British classics "off the farm" it has not worked here in the modern era.

This is sort of what I was referring to earlier when I said that it might be as much about how they are trained as it is where. The vast majority of the success that the Dubai owners have had has been in Europe and perhaps out of habit, they have had a hard time adjusting to the differences needed to prepare a horse for racing in the United States as opposed to Europe. In addition to the things you listed above, there also is the different style of racing. American dirt racing is slanted more towards speed than European grass racing. It's a totally different style of training needed to win the different types of races. One that they obviously haven't mastered as far as American racing goes.

I think it is a very valid question and as said earlier, by no means am I saying that there is no difference or that it's the best way. I was only reacting to those that automatically wrote off Vineyard Haven's chances and said that the Dubai way will never work. I think it can and will and when it does, the so called "Dubai Curse" will go the way of the "Juvenile Jinx" and the belief that a horse can't win with only two starts. There will obviously have to be some adjustments made by the Dubai outfit. What those changes have to be, I don't know. I just feel that there are other reasons why it hasn't happened other than the fact that they are shipping to Dubai.

excellent post

Well, I took your question to suggest that it was ridiculous to prep a horse in the US with an eye towards a race in Europe.

In the same vein, it sounds just as ridiculous to prep a horse in Dubai with an eye towards a race in Europe, yet it seems to work well for them.

My point was that both situations don't really have anything to do with prepping a horse in Dubai with an eye towards the Derby.

Yep. But at the same time, when the Dubai horses came over here to run in the Derby, didn't they all have a couple of prep races? They weren't exactly coming to Churchill Downs "off the farm".

I think other factors are more at play here for their horrendous failure.

They had run in the UAE Derby and Guineas. Those races can be tough (like this year, Cocoa Beach was 3rd in the Derby) and they are also not placed that well on the calendar.
Horse that ran well in either of the two have flopped in KY and those that ran poorly behind top class Southern Hemisphere colts and fillies (Asiatic Boy last year) have even less shot. They don't usually make it at all.
The other option is essentially "allowance" races for horses classified at up to 110lbs, which they run often at the Carnival. The problem is that those races are too easy. They don't get you ready for KY either. Meanwhile the best US colts are training hard and facing off in Florida, Cali, Louisiana and even NY.
The point is that yes, they have had success in Europe in the spring, but not THAT much and not with Dubai based horses. Again I say "that much" because they own much of the best bloodstock on earth. Also, if they have done well there, not here you have to look at the differences between the two places (US vs Europe) and try to find reasons.

That makes plenty of sense. But that's more a situation like the one in 2003 when Outta Here, an American-trained and raced horse, prepped for the Kentucky Derby by shipping to run in the UAE Derby.

What's not being mentioned is that the entire Godolphin band of horses, 3yos and older, are sent to Dubai. Winter in Dubai is the game plan for all their horses, not just 3yos targeting the Kentucky Derby. Its analagous (on a much larger scale) to old-time stables like Rokeby wintering their horses in Aiken, or WH Perry or Phipps stables sending horses to Santa Anita for the winter. They're there for several months.

In and of itself, I don't think this "regrouping" method is a bad idea. Where probably most of the problem lies, as opposed to the switch in locale--though obviously the long ship can easily knock out some horses--, is the switch in training/management (which is the plight of nearly all their 2yos). Not that the Suroor guy sucks, it just seems to be an untimely point in their careers to changing up the training program on developing horses. Its almost like the horses, being in new hands, have to start from scratch (this is what allegedly happened to Ruler's Court). It would be interesting to see how things would have played out if Eoin Harty and David Loder stayed on as head trainers for their strings while in Dubai.

Most of the failures of Godolphin to win the Kentucky Derby has been because they haven't shown up for the race, not because their horses have run like sh!t in it. In fact, the few horses they have started have given fairly decent accounts of themselves (Worldly Manner, China Visit, Express Tour). In addition, perhaps their two classiest candidates, Street Cry and Aljabr, were injured just days before the Derby.

Yep. It'd be better though--if they're intent on doing it their way--to do it with the horses they developed from the get-go, not top 2yos that they cherry-picked (or ones they happened to have handed to them-- in the case of Midshipman) at the end of the year.