Originally Posted by GBBob

Reality...What would you do here?

You paid $25,000 for 50% of a decent Silver Charm filly. Should eventually clear Allow conditions but probably not until she's 4 and Black Type is a very iffy proposition. Suddenly she get's hurt in Nov of her 3yr old campaign and doesn't look like she can run anymore, or at least without risking serious injury. You might be able to recoup your investment by selling her as a broodmare, but by adding another 14 months of care without return potential, your investment may almost double before you can even try to sell her. Assuming said owner doesn't own half of a winery, that is a difficult position to be in.

I don't disagree that the market is way oversaturated with inferior yearlings and colts that shouldn't be breeding, but creating a minimum breeding age isn't the answer, IMO. In theory, it has merit, but in reality it could create a lot of unwanted 4 yr olds and discourage owner/breeder investments

Originally Posted by Linny

Having spent alot of time involved with "outplacing" slow, unwanted and retiring race horses I tend to think that the costs outweight the benefits.

Look at it this way. Lets say they ban racing for 2 and 3yo's. The game will STOP. No one would buy yearlings and 2yo's would still be risky. Three year old sales would be the norm except that as a breeder, I don't want to have a 4 year investment cycle from breeding to sale. I can't afford to support all those animals that are non productive for that long and I don't care to take the risks that they will stay sound. No breeder, not Phipps or Jackson or Magnier and Tabor could do so. The game would cease.
This is an extreme example but it shows what happens when an outside force tells owners that they cannot use their animals to be productive, whether on the track or in the shed.

Originally Posted by pba1817

As I said in my previous post, there will be circumstances in which the owner will have to assume some responsibility for injured horses without an immediate sell off when the racing career ends.

Also, why is everyone in such a hurry to breed unsound horses as soon as their racing careers are over due to injury? Do you all recognize the insanity of this proposition and just how it has ruined the breed's stability and soundness?

Is it not impossible to think that by imposing a minimum breeding age would make owners/breeders focus on breeding sound horses instead of brittle and weak speedsters?

Originally Posted by GBBob

Sound horses get hurt too...

Obviously I'm not a breeder, but limiting the number of foals per stallion would seem to be a place to start. The knee jerk reaction of the breeder might be outrage that they can't maximize their stud fees, but limiting the number of foals and then yearlings might drive up the demand by limiting the supply. Based on the number of reserves not met at the Sep KEE sale and the declining middle and bottom averages, it certainly couldn't hurt.

Originally Posted by Linny

It is relevant (though extreme) because it is telling and owner that he or she cannot "use" is horse for several years. If a 2yo filly puts her leg through a fence and cannot be bred until she's 6 that's 3 1/2 years of liability. She wasn't "unsound" but was hurt. Don't think for a minute that most owners are going to keep her. If the owner tries to sell her he'll get nothing.

Under such a rule, IF Stardom Bound injured herself badly between now and her Nov. sale date (and cannot be bred til she's 6) what does she sell for?

Originally Posted by pba1817

The positives will far outweigh the negatives IMO, with any change there has to be some sacrifice and some burden met. The few injured horses will have to be cared for until the breeding age is reached.

Originally Posted by Linny

Having spent alot of time involved with "outplacing" slow, unwanted and retiring race horses I tend to think that the costs outweight the benefits. I hate to say it but unless they were of spectacular breeding and ownerd by the cream of the owners most would be cared for at the feedlots and at places like New Holland and others.
Look at it this way. Lets say they ban racing for 2 and 3yo's. The game will STOP. No one would buy yearlings and 2yo's would still be risky. Three year old sales would be the norm except that as a breeder, I don't want to have a 4 year investment cycle from breeding to sale. I can't afford to support all those animals that are non productive for that long and I don't care to take the risks that they will stay sound. No breeder, not Phipps or Jackson or Magnier and Tabor could do so. The game would cease.
This is an extreme example but it shows what happens when an outside force tells owners that they cannot use their animals to be productive, whether on the track or in the shed.

Originally Posted by pba1817

As I said in my previous post, there will be circumstances in which the owner will have to assume some responsibility for injured horses without an immediate sell off when the racing career ends.

Also, why is everyone in such a hurry to breed unsound horses as soon as their racing careers are over due to injury? Do you all recognize the insanity of this proposition and just how it has ruined the breed's stability and soundness?

Is it not impossible to think that by imposing a minimum breeding age would make owners/breeders focus on breeding sound horses instead of brittle and weak speedsters?

Originally Posted by pba1817

She will sell for the same amount, possibly more.

BTW, who if the hell sells a champion horse anyway? That should tell you just how effed up this whole industry is. That particular owner says, UNCLE, enough is enough, the industry is a joke and he wants out.

Supply and demand is what makes any industry go round. This particular industry has very little going for it other than the degenerate gamblers... Too many unsound, suspect horses are floating around racing at garbage tracks and breeding to far too many mares. The field sizes are too small, there are too many races at too many tracks, purses are too small, cost of operation are too high, taxes are too much, insurance premiums are outrageous. As it is its a losing proposition for many/most involved. It has to be changed.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

:rolleyes:

Don't get all paceadvantage on us.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I love when people tell me I should "sacrifice" and "assume" responsibility.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

So did Kobe Bryant before last season.

Originally Posted by pba1817

As I said in my previous post, there will be circumstances in which the owner will have to assume some responsibility for injured horses without an immediate sell off when the racing career ends.

Also, why is everyone in such a hurry to breed unsound horses as soon as their racing careers are over due to injury? Do you all recognize the insanity of this proposition and just how it has ruined the breed's stability and soundness?

Is it not impossible to think that by imposing a minimum breeding age would make owners/breeders focus on breeding sound horses instead of brittle and weak speedsters?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Why even bother? The guy's just trying to get under people's skin. He's bringing nothing to the table as far as solutions.

Originally Posted by pba1817

She will sell for the same amount, possibly more.

BTW, who if the hell sells a champion horse anyway? That should tell you just how effed up this whole industry is. That particular owner says, UNCLE, enough is enough, the industry is a joke and he wants out.

Supply and demand is what makes any industry go round. This particular industry has very little going for it other than the degenerate gamblers... Too many unsound, suspect horses are floating around racing at garbage tracks and breeding to far too many mares. The field sizes are too small, there are too many races at too many tracks, purses are too small, cost of operation are too high, taxes are too much, insurance premiums are outrageous. As it is its a losing proposition for many/most involved. It has to be changed.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I wish some one would trade me the equine version of Pau Gasol