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HaloWishingwell 11-04-2007 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot
Can you list Pletcher's problems, please?

I'm not interested in the allegations. Just the positives.

He served 45 days for a banned substance he used up in Saratoga which is ironic. Saratoga being where three horses died on him in the same meet including LEFT BANK. Here's the banned substance story below.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=31402

Nascar1966 11-04-2007 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
Dont you think there is a good old boy type feeling amongst most people in the industry that allows this to go on? Its almost like you have to keep the secret or chance getting black balled out of the sport, if thats what its called. Honestly anyone who wagers serious money on this sport, especially after hearing that should have their head examined.


This is why im not crazy enough to wager the big bucks, crooks like Biancone and Dutrow make you wonder if it actually an even playing field for everyone.

FGFan 11-04-2007 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riot
Isn't it comforting to know you are not color blind?

LOL...

But yeah, why the red, it's disconcerting. And CS is going to go crazy and charge.

Riot, since you brought it up regarding vet disclosure which I completely understand, does this situation present any difficulties for Dr. Allday?
I haven't listened to the show yet, am anxious to do so, hopefully today.

10 pnt move up 11-04-2007 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus
It is the 1964 Supreme Court decision that sets the federal standard for defamation, be it libel (fixed medium, like print) or slander (spoken).

It established that for someone who is judged to be a "public figure" or "limited public figure" -- the status to which Dutrow would be assigned -- to be defamed, there must be "acutal malice" or a reckless disregard for the truth by the potential defamer. The fact that something is true is called an absolute defense against defamation.

It came out of the Alabama court system. A county official sued the New York Times, but the court decided that the New York Times had not violated the standards it set forth.

I did not want to get into an argument with the operator of the board so I let it go but there is no way the radio station could be held liable for a radio interview in which claims like these were made, now maybe allday could but not the radio station, or a television station or a newspaper.

ArlJim78 11-04-2007 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
I did not want to get into an argument with the operator of the board so I let it go but there is no way the radio station could be held liable for a radio interview in which claims like these were made, now maybe allday could but not the radio station, or a television station or a newspaper.

steve has said that sirius made it clear that they do not want any lawsuits.
you're suggesting he should just ignore those instructions because you are so confident? maybe you are correct that they wouldn't be held liable, but I believe their goal is to not have to put it to the test. its amazing how much free expert advice steve gets here, about what he should do or say on HIS radio show.

Cannon Shell 11-04-2007 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
steve has said that sirius made it clear that they do not want any lawsuits.
you're suggesting he should just ignore those instructions because you are so confident? maybe you are correct that they wouldn't be held liable, but I believe their goal is to not have to put it to the test. its amazing how much free expert advice steve gets here, about what he should do or say on HIS radio show.

Exactly. It is not a matter of right or wrong. It is a pretty small radio show on a pretty big network trying not to make waves as per the big network's instructions.

FGFan 11-04-2007 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
steve has said that sirius made it clear that they do not want any lawsuits.
you're suggesting he should just ignore those instructions because you are so confident? maybe you are correct that they wouldn't be held liable, but I believe their goal is to not have to put it to the test. its amazing how much free expert advice steve gets here, about what he should do or say on HIS radio show.

Well said, it was what I was thinking.

Riot 11-04-2007 04:16 PM

Quote:

He served 45 days for a banned substance he used up in Saratoga which is ironic.
He served 45 days for a mepivicaine positive. That's is not a "banned" substance (as cobra venom is a banned substance), mepivicaine can be and is used commonly in horses, however it cannot be administered within 7 days of a race. The level of positive found in the case in question has subsequently been allowed by the jurisdiction in question. Meaning, the jursidiction has later changed their allowable levels of mepivicaine to include the level at which Pletcher's level was deemed a positive.

It was a positive, it was upheld, he took his days.

You wrote: "Pletcher, who has had his shares of problems and allegations".

So, in Pletcher's very long training career, considering the hundreds of horses that have passed through his various barns under his and his assistants hands, what other "shares of problems" has he had?

Or is the above the only one?

Quote:

Saratoga being where three horses died on him in the same meet including LEFT BANK.
Allegations are a dime a dozen. Do you rank allegations as equal with found positives?

Riot 11-04-2007 04:37 PM

Quote:

Riot, since you brought it up regarding vet disclosure which I completely understand, does this situation present any difficulties for Dr. Allday?
There is no law within the veterinary practice act of Kentucky directly prohibiting a licensee from talking about clients, former clients or their animals and their health concerns.

From a standpoint of someone desiring to sue him for his public statements, or file a complaint with his state veterinary licensure board regarding his public conduct, revealing of privileged medical information as an ethical violation, etc., he's on his own.

Edit: obviously he feels supremely confident that will not be a concern

Kasept 11-04-2007 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
I did not want to get into an argument with the operator of the board so I let it go but there is no way the radio station could be held liable for a radio interview in which claims like these were made, now maybe allday could but not the radio station, or a television station or a newspaper.

It's not of question of winning such a confrontation.. It's a question of trying to avoid what is involved in such an entanglement. We do not have the financial resources to engage in legal disputes of this nature, and Sirius isn't interested in a show like ours creating those headaches for them.

Why is this so difficult for anyone to understand? There have been two prior incidents and it's been made clear to me by my associate John Perrotta, and by Sirius, that we can't afford a third.

Echo Farm 11-04-2007 05:46 PM

Hopefully something like this won't hurt the show. I look forward to the 3 hours every afternoon.

I would not renew my Sirius if the show were gone.

Danzig 11-04-2007 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaloWishingwell
He served 45 days for a banned substance he used up in Saratoga which is ironic. Saratoga being where three horses died on him in the same meet including LEFT BANK. Here's the banned substance story below.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=31402

surely you aren't suggesting something untoward about left bank? he had colicked in the past, and had some of his intestine removed. a repeat attack is what killed him.

Cannon Shell 11-04-2007 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
surely you aren't suggesting something untoward about left bank? he had colicked in the past, and had some of his intestine removed. a repeat attack is what killed him.

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do...0&subs=0&arc=1

golfer 11-04-2007 06:45 PM

Quote:

Left Bank's colic was the first in a grim series of events for Pletcher. Two days after Left Bank departed for his initial surgery, Padua Stables' graded stakes winner Freedom's Daughter succumbed to a case of the intestinal disease colitis X. Nine days after that, the Grade 3-placed colt Warners died after developing laminitis; Pletcher had shipped Warners to a Saratoga clinic when the colt showed signs of intestinal problems similar to those exhibited by Freedom's Daughter.
3 dead horses within 11 days... nothing at least slightly suspicious about that? None died on the track, all due to "illness"...
I'm not guaranteeing, or even advocating foul play, but I would guess there was no deep inquiry into the deaths, by an unbiased group (none exists in racing).

Cannon Shell 11-04-2007 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer
3 dead horses within 11 days... nothing at least slightly suspicious about that? None died on the track, all due to "illness"...
I'm not guaranteeing, or even advocating foul play, but I would guess there was no deep inquiry into the deaths, by an unbiased group (none exists in racing).

Dont you think that the insurance companies that paid off these claims investigated them?

golfer 11-04-2007 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Dont you think that the insurance companies that paid off these claims investigated them?

Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.

Cannon Shell 11-04-2007 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfer
Fair point, I don't know, but would assume so. I was thinking of an investigative body in racing, who might be better versed in the likelihood of this happening to 3 horses under the care of one trainer in such a short period of time.
If 3 human athletes being coached or trained by one person died in similar circumstances, I believe there would be well-warranted suspicion.

The colic certainly should not come under suspicion because of his previous problems. The colitis X is not that uncommon. Warners brought the most questions because he had recently run a freaky race far out of character and there was never a reason given concerning his death.

Cant really compare this to humans becuase horses die from things that humans easily recover from. Also the fact that he trains over 200 horses makes it less unusual than a guy who has 20 and the same problem.

blackthroatedwind 11-04-2007 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
The colic certainly should not come under suspicion because of his previous problems. The colitis X is not that uncommon. Warners brought the most questions because he had recently run a freaky race far out of character and there was never a reason given concerning his death.

Cant really compare this to humans becuase horses die from things that humans easily recover from. Also the fact that he trains over 200 horses makes it less unusual than a guy who has 20 and the same problem.


They all ran freaky races.

Freedom's Daughter dueled in an insane pace and drew off like a machine and Left Bank's Whitney was a devastating performance. He sat off a Jerkens horse who set a ridiculous pace and destroyed Street Cry among others. Street Cry was coming off his blowout ( and 122 Beyer ) of Congaree in the Foster.


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