just remember the fave only wins about 1/3 of the time. some faves WILL go down come bc day.
question is....who??

I am thinking Bernardini is most likely the one to go down. I am so excited about the Breeder's Cup this year. I am even doing a pool at work for all the races.

The Mile and Sprint have historically had the most longshots. The Juvenile has had some beaten faves. The Distaff has had the most chalks.

And they say a woman is unpredictable... :D

That's one way to respond ... but ...

... a better way would have been to check the records ... and then write ...

"Gee, Bold ... you were right ... Secretariat was a much better 3YO than Spectacular Bid. From now on my signature line will be:

Mineshaft was the best horse since Spectacular Bid. And Spectacular Bid was the best 4YO ever."

Yeah ... I think that would have been a bit better response ... don't you?

Lucien could also make a soufflé without any eggs ... he used polytrack instead.

And the clocker who picked up the battery ... was the same one who timed the Preakness ... and who started his stopwatch while they were still loading into the starting gate.

Did you know that the very same battery is still used to start the engines on the QE2?

Now you're talking about the battery???
Huh?
The same one that runs your pace maker after you clogged your arteries with all those eggs...colesterol?
Hope it doesn't run out of juice.
Might be a little problem though, ya know...getting oxygenated blood to your brain through those clogged juglars.
Keep posting. Eat more eggs. Stick your index fingers in the nearest outlet if you find the need.
If you get a bit desperate, go to the nearest subway station (not too far from your refigerator box) and lay yourself on the 3rd rail.
Tell us about the "bounce".

OMG, what the race WAS was a four horse field and all Bernardini had to do was run in 2:01 to win by many lenghts. Dont you think Javiar would want to save his horse for the classic instead of get everything out of his horse so he can run a faster time??? it WAS NOT a difficult race and it WAS NOT a spectacular time, but dont get down on a GREAT horse because he did all he was asked of.

Yes, because I need to justify myself to some shmuck on a message board. I could give a rats ass what you think. And I never once in this thread even brought Spec Bid up. SO I have no clue why you dragged me into this to begin with....so "Gee Bold you were right, you are a deuche bag"

Hmmm Randall,
Didn't take you too long to figure out this blowhard...huh?

You bring Spectacular Bid up every time you post ... which is fine ... he was our last truly great horse.

If you don't want commentary on your comparison of Secretariat and Spectacular Bid ... don't post that comparison over and over again.

And the correct spelling is "douche" bag ... from the French word for washing.

You go, Akeelah, err I mean deucebag.

Sorry about that, my full breakdown will be coming up shortly, so don't go anywhere.

Exactly. :rolleyes:

You guys aren't very good at reading comprehension. My point is that there's a great deal of hypocrisy in almost everything the Bernardini haters say. The same people who destroy Bernardini for beating no one are suspiciously silent whenever Lava Man is getting praise around here. This is ludicrous. They both have beaten nobody, yet Bernardini is the only one who attracts the "he beat nobody" gathering. That was all I was saying.

The point is that you might as well not even respond to Bernardini posts anymore, because there's no way your opinion can be changed, no matter what he does at CD. So despite anything the horse does, you're gonna be singing the same tune.

Did I respond to that quote? No, I didn't.

The Jockey Club Gold Cup isn't a handicap. And it comes back to your same tired argument. Bernardini might as well retire, according to you. He'll never become great, because in order to do that, he has to beat horses that won't run against him. Greatness to me is earned with a mix of dominance, respect from others and an inexplicable quality, which is just that I'm blown away every time the horse runs. The only other horse besides this one that blew me away every time he ran was Ghostzapper. Like you said, I haven't been watching races forever, but since I have, those are the two who blew me away everytime they ran. Plus there's something I heard early on about this horse that I can't repeat here, which let me know that he could be great, and this statement has yet to be proven wrong.

Going back to Ghostzapper for a minute, there's something to be said about how much praise he gets around here these days. Back when he was running, I always felt like I was in the minority in thinking he was something special. But now, all I see is Ghostzapper this, Ghostzapper that. You think maybe there are certain people who just have a psychological tendency to not be able to appreciate great things until they're gone?

Really? That's a FACT? Not an opinion?

Yeah, I made the absurd post. You're already discrediting him for winning a "weak" Classic, and I'm off the deep end here.

1. I wont change my opinion? How do you know that? I need some tough races, and the BCC does give the opportunity. Especially if the horse gets into some traffic problems, which does not usually happen in 4 horse fields.

2. No you responded. Enough silly games like this.

3. I did not say the Jockey Club Gold was a handicap. Although I did imply it by adding older horses. I would be more impressed if the horse ran in a handicap like Mineshaft and really weighted down at distance. They actually used to run races with serious handicaps.

4. I never did this with Ghostzapper, although I was skeptical early on. He earned my respect. But I will never go bonkers over this horse being he was so fragile. I use longevity as one criteria. Thats why Smarty wont make it all the way either, except as a horse that ran some fantastic TC races as a 3yo. Seattle sees Candy Ride run one freak race here and he is sold this horse is the greatest ever. I think you see my point.

5. Oh very good ateam, its an opinion. Refute it.

6. You are not off the deep end. Like many others you have spotted a very good horse. Lets see him show he is great. Hope he gets the chance. There have been a number of very good horses in the past that did not get a chance.

Oh yes, this is an opinion to.

Ateam,
Noone hates Bernadini, and noone hated Ghostzapper.
In Zapper's case he was winning shorter races and beating SMALL fields, albeit better fields than Dini has but needed a "defining race" to show everyone how special he was and elevate him to "great" status. His BC Classic race was exactly that, he demolished and destroyed the field against his preferred running style to run an incredible figure.
Anyone who "hated" him or questioned him after that needs a straight jacket.
If Bernadini does the same thing then noone will question a thing about him either.
I think its quite fair to acknowledge Dini's immense talent yet still need to see a "defining race" out of him. Beating medocre horses or injured horses is NOT his fault. He can only beat what hes put up against. Noone with a brain is "hating" on him. Its just that need for a defining race that people wanna see.

You can put me on record as stating "you'll NEVER see one". I could care less if he beats Andromeda's Hero and that other quitter by a half mile.

If he puts away HH going 7/8th's to a mile I'll readdress my statement.

It's laughable. If a horse dominates a division, the division is weak. If no horse dominates a division, the division is weak. What will make people happy? Horseplayers are never happy.

Bernadini is
 

I looked at Bernadini in the paddock the other day. While I am not an expert like most of you people he is one of the most impressive looking thouroughbreds i have ever seen. He also seems to have a real presence about him. I hope he crushes the Classic field. I have been on this forum since May and it seems to becoming a place for smallminded idiots to belittle each other. Thats a shame because its run by a real classy guy. KP

Black and white statements like yours are ridiculous. Stick to race calling.

Kenny P, what is your definition of smallminded idiots? If its anyone who won't annoint Bernadini one of the greats yet, than you can add me proudly to that club of smallminded idiots.
I think everyone realizes that hes a very good horse, but some would like to see him take on those horses in the BCC and stamp himself as great before just handing that title over to him. I don't think thats at all unreasonable.

What was wrong with his statement? I thought it was pretty accurate...

bernadini is
 

Oracle .. My comment about smidiots had nothing to do with Bernadini. Its about the tone of the discussions here. Some are down right nasty. You seem to draw alot of venom with your posts( which I happen to like) ..the posts not the venom. I would like to see more talk about races than the constant sniping.KP

He made a black or white statement. There is a grey area and that's where Bernardini lives for right now.

If Invasor doesn't run in the BCC it will arguably be one of the weakest classic fields yet. Outside of Lava Man and Bernardini, there are nothing but a bunch of bridesmaids.

Horse racing is just like any other sport. Teams and individuals are always compared to past champions and there are certain accomplishments that have to be met before the masses concede their greatness.

And really all of the doubters are speaking up because the Bernardini goo gooism is getting ridiculous. He's a really good horse but there are many questions going into the big race that have yet to be answered.

read on drf that invasor WILL be supplemented, and will run in the bcc. that unless bern misses the bc, discreet cat will not run that day. that sucks....either/or.

Oh yeah well thats a very valid thing. Points and counterpoints, and opinion disagreements actually produce the most lievely and intelligent discussions though. It wouldn't be a very good place if someone posted a thought and everyone agreed.
Some folks though don't contribute a whole lot in the means of information or original thought, and spend most of their time trying to "prove" or shoot down something that others say without ever adding anything of interest. They are full time devil's advocates.
I actually think threads like last night's spat between BB and randall was awesome. I mean two guys disagreeing over the places in history of two of the finest horses ever to race, and you end up with all this info and history and stats on them that many people, especially the younger crowd, may be learning for the first time.
Give me 100 of those over the devils advocate, always after the race is over threads anyday.

You are correct in stating that horse players in general are never happy.

I agree with all of that, but you have to admit that some people just aren't happy any way you look at it. Personally, I think we have been blessed with a few of the most talented 3 year olds I've seen. Whether or not they've been facing subpar fields... I just don't know. I am of the same opinion of Bernardini as you... I want to see more. The reality is though... IF he beats everyone in the BCC, will he be called a fraud because the quality of the field isn't considered "great?" I think that's what Travis Stone was saying... Bern can't win for winning.

Hey Paisjpg,

DO NOT mess with my posts. You are so far over your head it's embarassing.

:mad:

One of the reasons why horse racing fans aren't happy is due to the small fields and the constant ducking and dodging the connections due to avoid real competition. The JCGC was a shining example of what's wrong with the sport. A 3yr old, not an accomplished older horse, scares away everyone but Aidan O'Brien and Nick Zito. One of the most prestigious races in North America is reduced to essentially a match race between a speed and fader and the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Now tell me, why should the racing fan be happy with a race like that?

P.S. And Bernardini's connections aren't innocent of this either. I don't care what anyone says. He wasn't ready for the Derby but magically two weeks later he's ready? Yeah right.

The internet tough guy has spoken.

A racing fan SHOULDN'T be happy with a race like that, but the question is... IF he wins the BCC against another ho-hum field, will he be called a fraud?

Haha. Ohhhhh scary.

dixie...I will edit any post--yours or otherwise that I feel crosses a line of proper personal etiquette. If you do not like that then I would be happy to show you the door. You can rest assured that I make these edits with steve's blessing so whining to him will not work.
If you wanted to disagree with travis stone's comment that is one thing...calling his words those of an imbecile are quite another and go against the atmosphere that steve is trying to foster here.

Nobody is calling him a fraud. He's a really good horse and he'll have to be considered great if he wins the race. Will it justify comparing him to the all-time greats? More than likely not, but it will happen unfortunately.

Yes, I will think he's a great horse, I just want a bigger field. I do not dislike the horse, but I don't like all of the lavish praise he gets. I would happily proclaim him one of the greats if he wins, even if he guts it out and just gets up, I would be more happy with a finish like that, it would show he has some heart...

Agreed. And that's how I feel too...

Me too, and you are talking to a guy who thinks Larry Holmes got screwed out of his place in history in the boxing world because there wasn't anyone around for him to fight who was any good when he was in his prime.
I just wanna see him meet a full field of decent horses with an honest pace and should he win like a great horse, I'll shower the praise down upon him.

If this was a Pletcher or Dutrow horse or some trainer its trendy to bash, then he would be getting even more folks questioning him, and thats a fact.
I think after the BCC in less than 4 weeks that everyone will be on the same page with him. Especially if he meets Invasor.

I do not know who you are and I could care less. You want Steve's bleesings that's fine with me.

I've grown to LIKE the guy and unless I'm a bad judge of people he can stand up for himself.

Whomever Travis Stone is the comments I pointed out were LAME.

As far as you go, GET LOST................

Cat Fight!!!!...Dixie, pais is the down and dirty type. She might be tough to take. I'll make the line -350 on Pais.