Right, I agree ok? So everyone made a score here, the agent who brokered it, the family who sold, and I won't say it as a fact, but I would be willing to bet that Holthus made a SCORE!! And I mean, zeroes Pillow Pants. More than he made in 10%, and more than if he won a lotta cash the next year with him.

So the guy moved him? So what? There are no injured parties here, except the guy who bought him.

This caliber of a horse they could've at least let Holthus spend more than 10 minutes with him before he was vanned off. It's not like we're talking about a 40k claimer.

Wouldn't you want some more time if the best horse you've ever trained was about to leave?

That's really my only gripe.

If I had a choice between petting my very favorite horse for more than 10 minutes, or a half mill, I'd take the half mill. I think most people would who arent independently wealthy.

Those 10 minutes showed that someone had the back class of a $2500n2l at Los Al. :D

I'd take the money.

McKee has worked the horse a hundred times. The horse gallops strong, works strong. John McKee is small even by Jockey standards. For everyone out there that thinks that it is easy to get a horse to relax in the mornings I certainly welcome your ideas. BTW I don't recall any problem horses that Pletcher has guided back to normalcy. Is he a horse whisperer too?

Funny thing about Pletchers assistants that are always being praised here is that at least 2 of them are failed trainers. Now they are geniuses too? It is all about the horses and he has more good horses under one shedrow than anyone in the history of American racing.

I figured he had but Oracle was making it out that McKee only rode the horse on raceday so isn't responsible for what goes on in the morning which is what my post was based on.

They probably received an insurance bill and decided a partner was a good idea. remember, the odds of a son of Langfuhr hitting big paydirt on the TC campaign were slim. They sold at the maximum of his "value curve."

Actually McKee was not the gretest choice of jockey for this horse but thats a moot point. Holthus rides him first call and is loyal to a fault. McKEE did work with the horse which obviously has not helped in relation to his being rank.
As for Holthus getting paid a lot of money on the commission he should be getting paid. The man has had the horse since he was brought out of a field and was very successful in racing him. Successful enough to get some dummies to pay 6 mill for him. But the truth of it is that Bob is getting up there in age and really doesn't care that much about the money. It's hard for a guy who made this horse from the ground floor to lose him in the manner that he did. I mean if you work at something for 50 years and finally got the best horse that you ever had, won a ton of races with him and to lost him to a corporate outfit where he will be stall number #17, how would you feel. Probably as bad as Holthus does.
I should point out that Bob is a friend and therefore I am a bit biased however I should point out the classy manner in which he has handled the whole affair.

Actually people like the Haisfields are NOT good for the business. They are in the business of commercial bloodstock which is polluting the game of HORSERACING. The only reason that they are investing in the business is to try to capitalize on the bloodstock craze. They have already shown an capacity to pay overinflated prices for stallion prospects , which leads to higher stud fees, which leads to more expensive horses, which leads to less people being able to afford to keep up with ever increasing bloodstock and training expenses, which leads to more people getting out of the business, which is very bad for business.

We need more horse owners not more stud farms standing marginal prospect for overinflated prices.

Having a jockey come and work a horse out in the morning is way diffirent than putting a 150 lb. gallop boy on him with a set of draw reins. Jockeys get paid to push not pull there is a very big diffirence, with a horse that is as rank as he seemed to be last out , I dont think there is much John McKee is going to do about it by working him once a week.
The foundation is layed in the mornings with the trainer and the gallop rider teaching the horse to relax , I have no idea what kind of training regimine the horse has had but from over 20 years of riding horses and the last 8 being for a Hall Of Fame trainer , I can tell you that the jockey isnt going to be the one getting the horse to relax by working him once a week, it would be the trainer and the gallop boy or girls job to do that.

I basically said the same thing.
Its not Mckee's fault by the way, his occupation says "jockey". Hes not a trainer.
The training is done in the morning by hard working people and exercise riders who mostly get no credit so that a few guys can become wealthy in two minutes of work based on hours and hours of hard work by the staff in the morning.

I know how successful Todd Pletcher is, but he is a 'suit'. He was not even present at Wait a While's triumphant return to California Saturday.:confused: I'll take Nick Zito any day; he loves his horses.

What kind of stupid statement is that? I am not a Pletcher fan but I am sure he loves his horses. Zito is good, was great, but he is no Pletcher. Zito can't even win a grade 1. Pletcher seems to win them every week. Pletcher is the best american trainer by far. He shouldn't be compared with the all-time greats yet, but he probably will be when his career is over.

As for not going to CA, guys like Frankel and Baffert win grade 1's all the time with their assistants saddling their horses.

Pletcher is probably the best I have ever seen when it comes to placing his horses.

Would Fire Slam standing for $6K fall into that category?

wood???:D :D :D

I realize you're like 12 years old, and don't know anything about the game, but you really make some moronic comments. " Zito can't even win a Grade 1 ". Are you really this stupid or are you just looking for another fight.

My guess? It's a combination of both. Now go change your diapers, or log off, because you will need to do at least one of those.

All of this talk about wood today... my lord. :eek:

indeed...must be the moon:)

I'm looking forward to the Wood Memorial. Lots of tears will be shed on that day.

Did he forget how to train?

How many grade 1's has he won this year MR. WOOD? LOL. What are you 12?

In fact he was the one saying he can't get lucky and win one. Just keeps coming up short.

Nick Zito started out as a kid from Brooklyn who walked hots.
He evolved into a man who has won all three classics, the Travers, and just about every Grade One in NY run on the dirt.
Hes trained a champion and won a Breeders Cup race.
His accomplishments speak for themselves, and every year he comes back with more horses at the highest level.
Hes in the hall of fame for a reason.
Hes a credit to the sport, and to anyone who wants to try and work themselves up from nothing to something.
You, Nostradamus, I suspect very strongly are working on the exact opposite, and I have no doubts that you will succeed!:)

He decided he likes to live in Saratoga and not spend his time in the trenches at Belmont. Smart lifestyle decision, but he is no longer in the Pletcher category.

Pletcher has won $19M this year. Zito, not even $4M. Guy has zero grade 1's and his 3yr olds are awful.

Is that more a product of the talent of horses that he has at his disposal or his skill as a trainer?

I never said he wasn't great. He was. He is a nice person too, but now he is no longer in the Pletcher league. Stats don't lie. Maybe getting married or living upstate did it, but he is not a face you see at Belmont any longer.

So his choice to have a home up here, and live here as his main residence, and train at the number one track to train a horse at, makes him not what he was? because you don't see him at Belmont? WOW!!

I don't think he works as hard as he used to and he certainly doesn't work as hard as Pletcher. Good for Zito. He has a life now.

My knock on Zito is really his job with Sun King. A poor job placing him and the horse continually loses despite being the best horse at the wire.

Well why has his stock dropped off so much? Who cares if I don't see him. Owners don't see him. He just does not have a great barn any longer. Who does he have? Other than Sun King, you never hear anyone mention his horses.

He was a no-show this past spring, and he has some expensive horses.

Nick's horses are stabled in Saratoga, genius. He spends time there and in NY. You know, just like your newest idol, Todd Pletcher, who has so many horses, he too has a bunch at Saratoga, where Todd ( like Nick ) also spends time.

So Todd has won five times as much money as Nick this year. How many more horses do you think Todd has than Nick? And, with all those 2YOs, isn't it interesting that Nick won more 2YO dirt maiden races than Todd did at Saratoga this past summer.

So his 3YOs are, according to you awful. That I guess is Nick's fault. I guess it must be, because he hasn't had any success in the past with 3YOs. Oh, I forgot, he has won the Derby twice, the Preakness and the Belmont ( 2 years ago ). I'm a little foogy, you know...from responding to moronic posts, how many TC races has the world's greatest trainer Todd Pletcher won.

By the way, Todd is a terrific trainer, but he's neither the greatest trainer around, as you claim, nor would he suggest as much.

Hes a workaholic, and the rationale that because you don't see him at Belmont, that he isn't it, is borderline maniacal.
He practically lives at the barn up here.
His plan a few years back was to train fewer horses, and train up here in Saratoga 6 months a year.
I don't know anyone who can see all the way to Saratoga from Belmont, and I doubt you can either.
His placement with a horse who was beaten a head and nose in the two of the three most presitigious races in NY for older horses, looks pretty good to me.

Expensive horses don't always mean good horses.
And "genius" he won more two year old MSW's up here in Saratoga this summer than anyone, including Pletcher.
You have never looked as foolish as you do now.

Look Mr. Wood, I am not a Pletcher fan. The numbers don't lie though. He is winning everything and has a great shot in numerous BC races.

As for Zito, I just said he is no longer a dominant trainer. His 3yr olds are terrible and he has some really expensive ones. I don't know if he bought them, but they were terrible. For a guy whose barn is centered on 3yr olds, he has done miserably.

Nostradumbass

He's just marginal

Pillow Pants, do you have any self-esteem?

I don't know what self-esteem is. Let me go ask my brother.

:eek:

Funny. Almost as funny as your anti-muslim comments. Here's $2, I know you are a degenerate, but please use it to buy some self-esteem instead of pissing it away on one of your worthless picks.

Ok. DaHoss/Pillow Pants. Keep patting yourself on the back. It would be funny if we didn't all know you are the same guy.