I see fact or reality will never affect or cause you to adjust your preconceived opinion.

:wf

I could try talk about how the budget doesn't work that way ("extended tax cuts = give it away to Egypt, etc") but .... never mind.

and you have to admit that they're making him get 60 Senators to pass almost anything. So, they really don't want him to do much (despite what they claim.) While having to get 60 Senators, no President will be able to do much. He is only able to make foreign policy/ terrorism type decisions.

No just a bit of Chicago street smarts and a great sense of judgment of character.

BTW you never explained how illegals fit into Obamacare. I know you said they will not get subsidies. Will they be turned away from ER rooms or are they going to get the same treatment the uninsured get right now?

Having read the PPACA, I'm sure you know that the subject of illegal aliens are specifically addressed within it, and of course you know what it says ;)

Hey I'm not the only one confused. You seem to have the Obamacare crystal ball.


Among the many claims being made durng the August recess by Democrats from President Obama, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-NV, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-CA, to the lowliest back-bencher is that Obamacare absolutely, positively, cannot possibly ever in a million, zillion years provide coverage to illegal immigrants.

Just this past weekend during his regular Saturday address - devoted to addressing what he called "false claims about reform" - Obama said he wants "an honest debate" on health care reform, "not one dominated by willful misrepresentations and outright distortions."

In what he called the "first myth" being spread by critics of his proposal for a government-run health care system, Obama said they are wrong in claiming illegal immigrants will be covered: "That is not true. Illegal immigrants would not be covered. That idea has not even been on the table." Obama said.

Well, Mr. President, that idea must have been tucked under a stack of background briefing papers over there in the corner of the table because the Congressional Research Service (CRS) says this about H.R. 3200, the Obamacare bill approved just before the recess by the House Energy and Commerce Committee chaired by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-CA:

"Under H.R. 3200, a 'Health Insurance Exchange' would begin operation in 2013 and would offer private plans alongside a public option…H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."

CRS also notes that the bill has no provision for requiring those seeking coverage or services to provided proof of citizenship. So, absent some major amendments to the legislation and a credible, concrete enforcement effort in action, looks like the myth on this issue is the one being spread by Obama, Reid, Pelosi, et. al.


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/...#ixzz1NEpaJiGp

No. I just paid attention to what they were actually passing, and the bill is available on-line, with excellent, good summaries everywhere, including Wikipedia - but you know that. Rather than being told what to hate about it by factually-incorrect, fear-mongering right wing blogs.

Holding firm so far: NO on debt ceiling limit.

Ignorant, stupid idealogic demagogury.

Demagogury? Kill yourself.

No, stupid and ignorant would be defending the $14 trillion debt, and wanting to add unlimited sums to that.

You, first.

The tea party freshmen in Congress have to be the most stupid, more ignorant, most uneducated fools we've ever voted into office.

Please - learn a little basics about the subject? No, no vote to raise the debt ceiling is "unlimited", it's a set amount - and raising the debt ceiling has little to do with defending or approving our debt amount. It's cash flow to pay our bills. Do you know how we are paying those bills today? What Treasury is doing to get the cash flow to pay them?

Whatever zeros out new spending for a while and actually reduces the debt (not deficit - that would be negative by definition) is what should be done.

Not raising the debt ceiling has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing "new spending". Not raising the debt ceiling has nothing whatsoever to do with "reducing the debt".

Not raising the debt ceiling will increase our debt, as it will increase our interest rates permanently.

Either learn how to spell, shut the f.uck up, or kill yourself. I'm sick of your pompous c.unt attitude and your inability to spell.

And I'm sick of your narcissistic self-appointment as the bully of Derby Trail. I don't have to suffer your insults and crap. Go back into your mother's basement. Nobody is impressed with your infantile tantrums or your foul mouth.

Don't think that's a real word,Riot

Way things are going....5 yrs we'll be a third-world nation

How does that make any sense? If we don't raise the ceiling, we can't borrow any more money, right? So spending will HAVE to go down to a level where tax revenue alone will support.

As for interest rates going up, is that worse than speeding toward a debt level in both principal and interest that we cannot afford? The party is over and now is the time to pay down the debt and ultimately eliminate it. If our great grandchildren can see that day I'd be impressed.

It is, especially if you add an "e" to it and spell it right ;) " demagoguery"

We're headed to third-world nation status for many reasons in addition to our debt: health care (we are not even in the top ten), education (again, not even in the top 15), energy policies, infrastructure failing. We are at a major crossroads, and it's very serious.

That's why I get angry and frustrated at those in Congress who want to demagogue their idealistic and reality-ignorant political views while this country sinks lower and lower.

Yes, but we can stop spending 100% right now - a complete freeze (which is impossible due to Social Security and Medicare anyway, which increases with the population over time) - and we would still have to raise the debt ceiling to be able to borrow money to pay the debt we've already incurred.

The debt ceiling is mostly just cash flow capability.

Our tax revenue needs to be raised back up to where it should be. Obama never should have let the Bush tax cuts renew.

Yes, because it permanently affects our credit rating in the world. Why should we add two percentage points of interest to those that want to borrow money for a house in 2060?

Yes, we have to pay down the debt. But not raising the debt ceiling has little to nothing to directly do with achieving that. The first thing we do is let the Bush tax cuts expire - our debt is cut in half in 10 years, doing nothing else.

Before we raise the credit limit or let any tax cuts expire, we need to show good faith paying down the debt, period. This will actually improve our credit rating. We need to be spending less and paying more interest, something Obama has failed to do on both accounts. And before we do that we'll obviously need to elect a new President who believes something other than we need to spend to prevent going bankrupt. :zz:

Obama needs more credit just like a alchoholic needs more booze. What he really needs is an intervention. With medicare and SS expenses increasing every year the last thing we need is Obamacare!

Man, you guys keep relating increasing the debt ceiling to increased spending, we are all in agreement that spending must be cut and money taken in increased but the debt ceiling (as has been clearly shown over and over) is a separate issue. Holding the debt ceiling hostage to draconian spending cuts (effecting only the poor and middle class) is right wing bs...why is that so hard to see??

THEY shoulda had this **** figured out long time ago....blame the bankers with pols in their pockets! It's a national shame...across any and all aisles!:mad:

Timm, I agree...but the debt ceiling is not the issue here, greed across the board is!

If we are all in agreement that spending must be cut why are we spending so much more and where is the outrage? As I've documented, the increased budget certainly hasn't been spent on interest and to the contrary, while Obama has raised the budget, he has lowered what is allocated towards interest or paying down the debt.

With his demonstrated track record he surely wouldn't put any new tax money towards the debt unless forced into it by some sort of agreement. He'd come up with more do-nothing projects and giveaways to even more foreign countries. This is not right wing BS but rather the right trying to save the country.

Somer: then we need to have a collective gut-check for the people in charge of our futures.

I agree...but failing to reduce the debt ceiling is cutting off our nose to spite our face. It's political posturing while avoiding the hard work of debt reduction.

I agree with that, even the "across all aisles" part.

But look back at the last time Newt and government shutdown loomed. And at a budget that was within our means, and paying our debt down in leaps and bounds. That wasn't very long ago.

You mean like how Obama cut 5 billion out of Medicare, and "obamacare" not only has put 18 million more Americans on purchasing their own private health insurance (getting them off you and I paying for them) but how it extended Medicare's life 12 years?

Well....like I said "show me demonstrable...not Stated...results

again, we are getting away from the debt ceiling and focusing on political ideology, distrust of one ideology by another has nothing to do with the need to raise the debt ceiling...just an attempt to throw the nation into debt default by loonies on the far right while blaming the Democrats (and many Republicans) for the resulting mess.

Is the Congressional Budget Office good enough for you?

See whitehouse.gov

Look, I know some of you guys may only watch Fox News or read Breitbach or Drudge, but this stuff has been in the general news - AP, CBS, NBC, ABC? It pretty much should be common knowledge. This isn't obscure stuff only available if you watch C-Span2 all day long.

That it is not common knowledge - like the list of things I posted that Obama did for veterans and the military - I think shows how the claim of the "rabid left wing slant" to the news doesn't particularly drive the general media discussion <g>

Most of this stuff was rather well-publicized policy decisions that came down the first year in office.

Expect to see alot more lists of "what Obama has done", especially as Romney decided to kick of his campaign today by claiming the President of the United States has done "nothing".

One opinion
 

April 26, 2011, 6:30 pm
What Happens if the Debt Ceiling Isn’t Raised
By CATHERINE RAMPELL New York Times

Still don’t understand what happens if Congress doesn’t raise the debt ceiling?

Below is a letter from Matthew E. Zames, a managing director at JPMorgan Chase and the chairman of the Treasury Borrowing Advisory Committee, which meets quarterly with the Treasury Department. The letter gives a step-by-step account of what analysts think might happen to the economy if the debt limit is not raised, and why they fear this might lead to another financial crisis:

Saw today somewhere that Obama cut 400Bil from Defense or military...I'll leave it to you to find it.

I'll believe you ;)

...bout time!:p

I'm willing to give it a try. But we need safe-guards (insurance) as it is a big gamble (to at least to 50% of us plus). It's supposed to save money and that's all good. However we need a stop/loss put in at $5 Billion. That's plenty and we can't afford more. If it works? God Bless Obama....

Unfortunately, there is no "try" with ObamaCare or any other liberal program. They seize power from the individual in the form of freedom and it never comes back.

Sorry if my first sentence sounds Yoda-like.

Recent poll: only 22% of people want the debt ceiling raised.