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-   -   I need to listen to ATR more often (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36677)

Coach Pants 06-17-2010 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 658880)
I agree that cowardice is rewarded and praised. But what's even more rewarded and praised is retiring good horses and taking them out of the game. "It's just good business". "We want to do the best for the horse". Clap clap clap.

Shame on the Mosses for bringing Zenyatta back and only racing twice in the East. And the nerve they have of announcing her schedule far enough in advance that any filly/mare in the country could meet her if desired by the connections.

Shame, too, on Zenyatta for excelling on two surfaces, while "really" good horses can apparently only excel on one, dirt.

Shame on the Mosses for aiming so low as to win a 2nd BC Classic.

--Dunbar
It's like comparing tennis players who excelled on carpet to those who did on grass.

ateamstupid 06-17-2010 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin (Post 658847)
Is it like that in boxing to? Should a boxer try to look for the toughest fight he can find every time? If he doesn't, is he a coward? That is absurd and you know it. You point for a big fight or a big race, but you don't want to have really tough ones all the way there. You want some of the preps to be relatively easy. There is nothing wrong with that.
Remind me of the last "prep" fight Mayweather had. The champion takes on the #1 contender to the belt, not a bunch of scrubs he used to beat up in his neighborhood gym.

Besides, how many f'ing preps does she need for the Classic? If she's "prepping" in June for the Breeders' Cup Classic, that doesn't say much for her condition.

Antitrust32 06-17-2010 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt (Post 658878)
Would anybody rank Quality Road in the top 50 handicap horses of the last 25 years?
RHT1985 would i'm sure.

Antitrust32 06-17-2010 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 658880)
I agree that cowardice is rewarded and praised. But what's even more rewarded and praised is retiring good horses and taking them out of the game. "It's just good business". "We want to do the best for the horse". Clap clap clap.

Shame on the Mosses for bringing Zenyatta back and only racing twice in the East. And the nerve they have of announcing her schedule far enough in advance that any filly/mare in the country could meet her if desired by the connections.

Shame, too, on Zenyatta for excelling on two surfaces, while "really" good horses can apparently only excel on one, dirt.

Shame on the Mosses for aiming so low as to win a 2nd BC Classic.

--Dunbar
I still dont understand when Zenyatta has raced in the East????

As far as I know.. or at least when I look at a map, Arkansas is NOT "in the East". East of Cali, yes, but thats about it!

Soon Zenyatta will be shipping to Turf Paradise, so she can race in the East!

slotdirt 06-17-2010 10:38 AM
Arapahoe Park is the East!

Dunbar 06-17-2010 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 658858)
i don't think too many are nitpicking...until someone says she's the best ever, or when someone says she should be/should have been horse of the year. that's the type of stuff that gets her accomplishments and schedule scrutinized, and deservedly so.

If that were true, I'd completely agree with you, Danzig. If it's just an argument about whether she's THE all-time best mare, I'll be the first to look at the choice of races, the level of competition. (As an aside that Cannon Shell might appreciate, I never forgave Floyd Patterson for the way he ducked Liston and others for so many years.)

But people here are denying that Zenyatta is even one of the best fillies/mares we've seen in the last 30 years. That is patently ridiculous, IMO.

So, rather than celebrating the fact that two of the best fillies of our time have mangaged to stay healthy and out of the breeding shed, we have countless posts tearing down one or the other.

--Dunbar

Round Pen 06-17-2010 10:42 AM
I would Like to thank everyone who has made a post in this thread it definitely has made entertaining reading since i have gotten in from the barn this AM.:D:D

Antitrust32 06-17-2010 10:45 AM
OOOOOOOOOO

^ for Steve Byk.

XIIPointStables 06-17-2010 10:59 AM
Those Paulick Posters are a whole new level of moron.

horseofcourse 06-17-2010 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt (Post 658881)
Dunbar, I will bet you that Zenyatta will not race again this year outside of the Pacific time zone. Name your price. Breeders Cup Classic on dirt? I laughed.
They're not even taking her out of her stall to walk a couple hundred yards to race in the Hollywood Gold Cup at her home track at her "preferred" distance. What Rocky Mountains exist between her stall and the race track at Hollywook Park?

Left Bank 06-17-2010 11:25 AM
Damn Steve! You were Pissed!
Best part of the interview was when you hung up on Davidowitz.Enjoyed the logical talk wit Seth.

Cannon Shell 06-17-2010 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 658821)
Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar
you probably enjoy preseason football as well

Dunbar 06-17-2010 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt (Post 658881)
I say, once again, that you guys are absolutely insane if you think Zenyatta is crossing the Mississippi again this year. Insane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt (Post 658881)
Dunbar, I will bet you that Zenyatta will not race again this year outside of the Pacific time zone. Name your price. Breeders Cup Classic on dirt? I laughed.


Given that you seem to think there is no chance she is running in the BC Classic, how about giving me 2-1? That should be pretty easy money for you, if you're so sure she's staying in California.


--Dunbar

Cannon Shell 06-17-2010 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 658874)
Best Pal would have beaten Zenyatta as well.

Steve Zenyattawitz is hopeless!
Once out of 10 maybe.

Cannon Shell 06-17-2010 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt (Post 658878)
Would anybody rank Quality Road in the top 50 handicap horses of the last 25 years?
I have him 47th

randallscott35 06-17-2010 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 658902)
I have him 47th
:tro:

Cannon Shell 06-17-2010 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 658888)
If that were true, I'd completely agree with you, Danzig. If it's just an argument about whether she's THE all-time best mare, I'll be the first to look at the choice of races, the level of competition. (As an aside that Cannon Shell might appreciate, I never forgave Floyd Patterson for the way he ducked Liston and others for so many years.)

But people here are denying that Zenyatta is even one of the best fillies/mares we've seen in the last 30 years. That is patently ridiculous, IMO.

So, rather than celebrating the fact that two of the best fillies of our time have mangaged to stay healthy and out of the breeding shed, we have countless posts tearing down one or the other.

--Dunbar
I dont see anyone denying that she is one of the best mares that we have seen. The fact is that thay have/had a chance to make the point that she arguably could be the best but would rather hang their hat on a meaningless win streak. It isnt a coincidence that this winning streak stuff came about recently. If Mr Frisky had been injured and retired after winning the SA Derby and 16 in a row would we have been proclaiming him one of the all time greats?

And when a dudes nickname is "Pretty boy" you have to assume that ducking is in his nature

tiggerv 06-17-2010 11:44 AM
Nobody knows how good Zenyatta really is because of how she has been protected by the Mosses/Sheriffs. She is impossible to judge and super fans and haters are going to continue to make ridiculous comparisons or unfairly trash her because of it. Fans and doubter should all be in agreement that it's time to see her really challenged and give us some perspective on her career.

The Mosses have their meaningless 17 in a row record so there is no reason to hold back anymore. If they want to keep her undefeated, then retire her now, because she nearly lost to a juiced up cripple last weekend on her home track. That would have done much more to tarnish her rep then a loss to Rachel or QR or even Blame on the dirt. She should have been in the Foster running against males on the BC track if they are really preparing for a BCC defense. This Vanity-Hirsch-Lady's Secret pupu platter every year is ridiculous.

Ship her and run the Whitney - Woodward - BCC and see how good she really is. QR is going to run all three and I believe Blame is pointed towards the Whitney. Since Rachel appears to be back in form, that windbag Jess Jackson should do the same thing. If the Mosses and Jess Jackson really want to do something for the sport instead of talking a big game, then getting the best horses and biggest names running against each other multiple times would do it.

smuthg 06-17-2010 11:48 AM
http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/byk-disses-zenyatta/

I must say, I'm more in the Steve Davidowitz camp...

Indian Charlie 06-17-2010 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell (Post 658901)
Once out of 10 maybe.
Hah.

When BP was past his prime, maybe.

Not at the top of his game.


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