Originally Posted by pgardn

Are you comparing the New Coke to Polytrack? God bless it man. Find something new. You are chasing your tail. You just constantly reinforce my assertation that you change arguements.

What about your article with sources on the greater % of injuries on Polytrack? That was much more in line with the original post than all your crazy offshoots. Dont always fall back on that crap I know more about the industry. This was not what was originally argued. quit changing paths. Its boring. I have never argued about your overall knowlege of the industry. Never. Thats why I read this board.

Originally Posted by pba1817

I think the whole argument is some people see this as a tragedy and others see it as an opportunity for the industry to grow. Those are two factors that are arguable, but no fact will be known for years to come.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I should make a thread

Which is better? New Coke or Poly?

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ok, thats cool, and you too Titan Sooner.
But Titan my point was that you can't always see the future.
And Pgard, in no way would I compare polytrack to new coke. New Coke was of dire concern.

Originally Posted by pba1817

but no fact will be known for years to come.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

A STRONG trend I have seen in the many people I ask opinions of about the Polytrack on a daily basis is that 90% of the people who do NOT like it have what I consider as an ery advanced level of knwoledge when it come to horse racing, and of the people who are advoctaes of Polytrack, about 90% of them have a very elementary knowledge of horse racing and only understand short term, on-the-surface issues...

hat is a fast from a general observation I've made, and thats NOT A GOOD THING AT ALL.....that's like having a bunch of naive 18yos having a najority vote on who the next President will be (which is what MTV and P Diddy attempted to do when they had their hidden agenda on trying to get a democrat in office a few years ago with their VOTE OR DIE campaign IMO)...

If you don't understand the game you shouldn't have a lot of weight in the conversation of Polytrack....just my opinion..

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

THEN WHY INSTALL THIS CRAP IF THE JURY IS OUT? :confused:

Originally Posted by TitanSooner

Then why don't we just all shut up and you can debate yourself oh great one.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Or, how about I just debate with the 10% of people in this industry QUALIFIED to argue on bealf of polytrack because they have an intimate knowledge of this industry.....none of you have shown me that you fit in that category....so yes, I'm probably better argueing with myslef about it until a formidable debater comes about...

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Or, how about I just debate with the 10% of people in this industry QUALIFIED to argue on bealf of polytrack because they have an intimate knowledge of this industry.....none of you have shown me that you fit in that category....so yes, I'm probably better argueing with myslef about it until a formidable debater comes about...

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

THEN WHY INSTALL THIS CRAP IF THE JURY IS OUT? :confused:

Originally Posted by oracle80

Excuse me????

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Or, how about I just debate with the 10% of people in this industry QUALIFIED to argue on bealf of polytrack because they have an intimate knowledge of this industry.....none of you have shown me that you fit in that category....so yes, I'm probably better argueing with myslef about it until a formidable debater comes about...

Originally Posted by pgardn

Apparently part of the jury lies in Europe. I personally would try and get a hold of some of the people in Europe who are knowlegeable and train on it. Polytrack may be a passing fancy here. But if it is not, I would try and be ready. If its really that important, which it would be to me if I was in the position to have to deal with it.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Excuse me????

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Or, how about I just debate with the 10% of people in this industry QUALIFIED to argue on bealf of polytrack because they have an intimate knowledge of this industry.....none of you have shown me that you fit in that category....so yes, I'm probably better argueing with myslef about it until a formidable debater comes about...

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then clean up that first post. Because if you do know something about the industry, that was a very sloppy attempt at debating Polytrack. Incredibly sloppy.

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then clean up that first post. Because if you do know something about the industry, that was a very sloppy attempt at debating Polytrack. Incredibly sloppy.

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

Originally Posted by pgardn

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then clean up that first post. Because if you do know something about the industry, that was a very sloppy attempt at debating Polytrack. Incredibly sloppy.

I met a guy that knew his Physics backwards and forwards, but when he explained to me that the government had tried to place a chip in his head, and the US currency was produced by Arab nations, his opinions on everything carried quite a bit less weight.

Originally Posted by pba1817

That's pretty f'ing funny..

If Cunningham is worried about his professional future, then he should be/have been prepared to adapt. Like anyone who is business for themselves, REGARDLESS of the industry they are in, the business world around them changes often. There are no guarantees, just options, what you do with those options is how you succeed or fail. Being educated and versed in your options is the best way a businessman can be successful.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

God created horses and evolved their physiques and bio-mechanics over centuries of time to be tailored to perform in their natural environs in the wild – which are almost exclusively DIRT ranges and GRASS pastures and fields. They were NOT born to run over chopped-up rubber tires and synthetic fibers with wax-coated sand mixed in…….Oh how our sport will change because of this…oh how our sport will change……..

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….

Everybody who doesn’t understand our game (most track execs) looks at the Polytrack as the saving force of our industry. Those people don’t have the capacity, intimate knowledge or care of the sport to look under the 'surface' and grasp an understanding of the long-term effects it will have on our game – because if they did, I think they would be rather concerned at the integrity risks we stand to lose.

What the implementation of Polytrack really is to these figures is a knee-jerk, quick-fix REACTION (not pro-action) to what they feel will solve problems in the areas of field sizes and horse health – which shouldn’t be hard to preserve on dirt with the right grounds crew. Maybe not at Turfway in the winter, but the California tracks should definitely have a way to provide a better racing surface than the ones they did. SO SHOULD KEENELAND. All they had to do is rip a page out of Churchill Downs' book – where the surface is as good as any is in the country – and they would see that in the same region of the country it IS possible to provide a good dirt track. I mean, what’s so different between Lexington and Louisville???

Ironically, the funny thing is that if Polytrack threatens the way we breed horses in the future (which I believe that it will), I think it will have a NEGATIVE affect on the sales market – the very thing that Keeneland makes all of its money on. Now, how funny would that be considering the fact Keeneland will be known as one of the leading, initial advocates of Polytrack?…….:eek:

With a City, Frankie Brothers filly that won the 2-year-old stake two weeks ago (who I bet on might I ad) and Asi Siempre in the Spinster (bet on her too although she couldn’t stand up next to Happy Ticket on the dirt)…..its all garbage…..the wrong horses are going down in history and we have just now started a trend that could seriously threaten what all of us know now as HORSE RACING.

Can you tell I love this stuff? :rolleyes:

:mad:

Originally Posted by pba1817

That's pretty f'ing funny..

If Cunningham is worried about his professional future, then he should be/have been prepared to adapt. Like anyone who is business for themselves, REGARDLESS of the industry they are in, the business world around them changes often. I am also self employed in an industry that is very volatile, there are no guarantees, just options, what we do with those options is how we succeed or fail. Being educated and versed in the options is the best way a businessman can be successful.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Pgard, they TRAIN on it. yeah they run some minor races on it in the winter, but training is its primary function.
You can talk to a lotta trainers who will tell you that their horses train fine on grass(how many times have we read that before a stakes horse makes his grass debut?), but they don't run on it worth a damn.
I'm hearing the same thing as Joel, trainers say they train ok on it, but don't race worth a damn on it.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I'm involved in this industry ON BOTH ENDS.....it'll be easy for me to adapt on one end, but the other end is far more unpredictable....and people who know me understand what I mean...A single person could not be as invested in this game as me.....it can't happen...

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I am only going to comment on part of your post because everyone knows how I feel on this subject. The thoroughbred was created by humans and not by God. Humans experimented with breeding different types of horses before they came up with the thoroughbred.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'll tell you one thing dude, your patting yourself on the back for what you know, or what you do is getting REAL OLD. It's not just you, because there are a few on here that do it, but there are also a few on here with a lot more clout in this business, that don't. You and the others that do it aren't impressing anyone, and it is kind of sad. Most of your posts are done to get a debate going where then you try and "flex your muscles", telling everyone how you are right because you know more. So why even start a thread? Your act is realized by many a poster on here as witnessed the other night. Seriously, you have a lot of good to say, but the constant chest pounding thing is getting to be real worn out.

Originally Posted by Honu

And sadly, I think it will change for the worse because it will change the way we breed horses…..Storm Cats and A.P. Indys – two of the top DIRT performing sires of modern day, both hailing from great families of longstanding dirt-producing superiority – could both now be replaced by commons like Lemon Drop Kid and Smart Strike (no knock on these studs, just making a point)…..our sport is at risk of failing to preserve the legacy of our most cherished and storied families…. oh, what a shame….oh, what a shame….



To be honest it wouldnt hurt my feelings if I never saw a horse by Storm Cat again in my life. Of the ones I have been around or sat on I have found about 90% cant breath and or have bad feet and knees with the temperment of a pissed off badger or woman how ever you see it.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The bottomline is that horses were created as athletes, and when they were tailored to be athletes God made them equipped to be athletic on a natural surface.....look at the horses Billy the Kid used to ride out on 30 mph as his get-away vehicle in the old, Wild West days, and look at the Thoroughbred we have now.....they all have 4 legs and weigh about 1000 pounds and they all work or run over natural surfaces....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

The bottomline is that horses were created as athletes, and when they were tailored to be athletes God made them equipped to be athletic on a natural surface.....look at the horses Billy the Kid used to ride out on 30 mph as his get-away vehicle in the old, Wild West days, and look at the Thoroughbred we have now.....they all have 4 legs and weigh about 1000 pounds and they all work or run over natural surfaces....