So let me get this straight.. You're already writing off the BCC field, and pre-emptively discrediting Bernardini if he wins the BCC, because it's already a bad field in your opinion. Now I've heard everything.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Your attitude is everything that's wrong with the racewatching public. Rather than appreciate the type of horse that only comes along a few times in a life (if we're lucky), you'd rather sit back and knock the horse for something he cannot control and something that is mainly A RESULT OF HIS BRILLIANCE. There's absolutely no satisfying this type of racing "fan" unless we go dig up Secretariat, Seattle Slew, find Spectacular Bid, etc. and run them against this horse. Then if he loses, the "fan" will say "I told you so." It's a complete joke.

THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE LEARNED OVER THE YEARS AS A RACING FAN: NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE HORSE, THE "HE BEAT NOBODY" CROWD WILL ALWAYS EXIST.

It wouldn't matter if Pegasus came to life and won the BCC by 87 lengths. There would, without a doubt, be the "Yeah, but who did Pegasus beat?" sad sacks chiming in at every opportunity.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Yet what I find even more absurdly hilarious is that when Lava Man beats Super Frolic for the 22nd time, we get 1,000 new threads proclaiming this horse the greatest older male since Man O' War. Okay. It's real tough to stay within 40 miles of your home base and beat the same four or five horses all year long. Much tougher than doing what Bernardini has done.

It's ridiculous.

it is pointless, which is why i wonder at the exercise. each horse was/is very good, each had or has his strong points. whether it be running up an unbeaten streak, winning on two surfaces, running in and winning 12f races, or beating older horses....but to say bernardini is 'definitely' better is an exercise in futility, as it can't be proven. altho you might take all those others over smarty, i'm sure many could make an argument that they would take smarty over all the others! or point given...or barbaro for that matter.

Don't forget Dollar Bill. :eek:

Great post, Ateam; I couldn't agree more. But really, it's their problem.......or not, if this is how they get their jollies. Now I'm hearing that Bernardini's time was slow for the track? LOL That's why he got a 117 Beyer; that track was not that fast and Bernardini finished in a canter. What did they expect, a track record performance one race before the Breeders Cup? Should Castellano have hit him with the whip, race well in hand, to impress the fans?

Even some of the praise here is qualified - nice race, I would have liked to have seen him beat more than 3 horses. Interesting that the same argument used to defend Mineshaft (who I adore) -- that he was so good that horses ducked him- is being used to discredit Bernardini. What a joke -it's not like he's struggling to win, either. He's winning in breathtaking style and it's still not enough.

There's a huge disconnect between racing fans and racing writers/handicappers/insiders. The former barely credit Bernardini with doing anything and the latter understand how good this horse is (if Bernardini's races are so slow, why aren't the speed handicappers knocking him?), almost uniformly. Racing writers have mentioned the fact that they'd like to see Bernardini beat fuller fields or overcome trouble, yet they also don't hold it against him because he's this good. Lucky them that they can appreciate a special talent.

poor bill. always a hard luck story....but we won't speak ill of the dead.

funny tho, isn't it. invasor beats sun king (but then, doesn't everyone?) and anyone who praises invasors runs this year gets shot down with the sun king sucks line.
lava man, same thing. you try to talk him up, and get shot down over who he's beaten.

but bernie, to suggest that beating wanderin boy does not a hall of famer make, and it's blasphemy and the search for stones to throw is on.

bern gets a high figure, wonderful. anyone else--ah, beyer tinkering with #'s again. it's hilarious.

bernardini has 4 of the fastest 5 beyers run this year. the other being the faulty one sinister minister ran. he is significantly faster than any distance horse out there.

see what i mean? it's ok to knock lava mans competition, but not bernardinis. right? and by your logic, if lava man is the best comp that bernie will face, than yeah, evidently it is a crappy field--since you think lava man stinks, right?

now me, on the other hand...i think the best open race of the year is coming up in the bcc. the winner will justifiably be called horse of the year.. the likes of lava man, bernardini, invasor, david junior assembling in churchill, neutral ground for them all. the four above--take the entire year, and the four of them together have only two losses between them all!! some have run only on dirt, one only on turf, and one on both. gonna be a hell of a race. but ateam, you and others do no favors to bern by suggesting that the ones he will face in nov are nothing but pretenders. lava man is having the best year of his racing life. heck, they all are!!! bring on nov, so we can anoint the best horse since gz--and probably better, because all of these guys have raced way more in a year than he did!!

lol maybe all five are faulty. hey, any horse on any given day can run lights out. that was sinmins day. calling it faulty could bring into question any beyer!

And who in Gods name is close to decent then ateam if Lava Man is not. Which outside of Cali I dont think he is. Are really telling me we got a bunch of good older horses? Is that what you are saying? Who are they? It has not been a good year and it is not Bernardinis fault. But I cant rate him the greatest in 30 years as one poster did. No way no how. I wonder if that poster has been alive 30 years.

And I can't even respond to "Smarty ran against much better horses and had a much more difficult schedule" without laughing myself blue.

Then why did you respond and laugh yourself blue?

And you are telling me Bernardini ran 3 TC races? For gods sake what schedule is more difficult than that? TELL ME ATEAM, GIVE ME A MORE DIFFICULT SCHEDULE?

ANd you are coronating this horse as the best horse to come along in years... Why? Because he looks great in his wins. BUT FOR GODS SAKE I HAVE WATCHED THIS STUFF A LOT LONGER THAN YOU, SO TELL ME, HOW DO YOU DEFINE GREAT?

In my humble definition of GREAT you have got to be pushed and come through some adversity. Yes in my definition, you have to do more than win. A horse has to win facing some adversity. If the horse is so great then why does he not run with more weight against his elders? Who cares if he is 3, he is GREAT, ATEAM says so, so weight him down in a HANDICAP instead of older horses. Handicap THE BEST HORSE.

This just in. There's a REASON that he's facing nobody. NO ONE WANTS TO FACE HIM.

Who is out there to face him on the level of Barbaro that is not injured or sick? Who ATEAM? Who is up and coming and worthy? Which horse ATEam, since the older division and 3 year olds are so loaded this year? FACT: This is not a good year in the older division or the 3 yo division. The best horses where pushed too hard and or are out, or are not present. Bernadini's connections played it perfectly.

And I have already stated its not his fault numerous times. You making a post as absurd as this... makes me want the horse to lose which I dont. I want to see the horse beat some hot horses.

So you think Bernardini has run a schedule tougher that Smarty JONes... get real. The TC is murder. And they new it. Alert ATEam, there is no tougher series of races than the triple crown. If so, give it to me.

To hell with the GD numbers. Horses running free on the lead get these types of numbers. There are a heck of a lot of very good races that are very close that do not yield good Beyers. Because the horses knock the crap out of each other.

Hey, King ...

... remember all the scoffers and naysayers on the "other" forum last March when I was the first to say that Bernardini was a special horse?

They forgot ... or never learned ... life's greatest truth ...

... "Never ... ever ... doubt Bold Brooklynite."

Invasor is sick... or so I thought? That was a total lie to keep him away from Bernardini.? Invasor was really in top shape? Lava Man, again, outside of the west, I dont trust the horse. I dont think he travels well at all. And David Junior. Bring on a poor Euro that is used to trotting the first 6f on the grass and take on these dirt horses running a diff direction. The Euros are at a clear disadvantage in the BCC.

This years BCC is may rank as one of the shallowest. Take out Lava Man and Bernardini... and we have a sick INvasor left? Who would watch this. There is one reason the BCC will get people watching. Bernardini, not his competition. Its shallow. Sorry.

Having said that Im looking forward to the sprint. Henny Hughes looks tremendous and will hopefully be vastly overbet. So hopefully I can find another Cajun Beat. Its the sprint.

Who scoffed?

that is a flat out ridiculous comment.
i have never been a big bernardini fan. he is a really good horse, but every time i try to like him, i get turned off by the sheer ignorance of his fans when they say crap like this.

The Vosburgh has traditionally been run at 7f. I'm not sure how many times it's been run at 6f ... but it's not a lot ... so the stakes record is not that meaningful.

In 1957 Bold Ruler ran the first 6f just as fast as Henny Hughes did yesterday ... and Bold Ruler still had another furlong to go.

Henny Hughes ... like Bold Ruler ... is a very fast horse who makes the track look faster than it is.

My horse Bernardini ... my horse, not anyone else's ... runs so effortlessly that his final times are really amazingly fast ... given the minimal effort that he exerts to achieve them.

Yes ... it would be nice to see him face better competition ... and hopefully Invasor and Lava Man will provide some. But after he destroys them in the BC Classic ... all we'll hear is that Bernardini beat a former claimer who can't run outside of California ... and a South American horse who can't even speak English.

invasor spiked a fever. no way i'd take on bern if my horse wasn't close to 100%. problem is now that he'll be off 13 weeks, but hopefully kieran will get him as ready as he can for the bcc.
i just think it's not being consistent with arguments if some knock lava about his comp--but it's heresy to question bernardinis--and of course it's pointed out that bernardini can only face who shows up, he has no control over who he runs against. well guess what folks?! neither does lava man!!!! or any other horse. but if super frolic can't hold up to scrutiny, why should andromedas hero? or wanderin boy?? lol it's crazy.
i think the top 3 yo effort this wknd was by henny hughes. he took on some of the best sprinters in the country, including silver train, who we all know absolutely loves belmont!

Which is better,

a chili dog from Dairy Queen

or

Wendy's french fries?

profundity of the day.

real source of my frustration is knowing Bernardini will not be runnng at 4. That pisses me off to no end.

i don't think he'll run next year either. but who knows til they make the announcement? if he wins the classic, i really don't see him being around next year. actually, i'm not so sure he'll be around either way. that's another year the sheik would have to wait for his future derby winner sired by his first classic winner.

I will drone a chant tonight wishing all B's offspring become happy, healthy duds. That would be justice served.

LOL u can't do that. group think tells all we must bow down to Bernardini and kiss albertranis butt...:D

It's kind of funny, how you point out that Sinister Ministers Beyer is faulty, but Bernardini's aren't...hmm, I guess if it fits your arguement, they are valid, if not, they are faulty...

SM ran one in the Top 5. Bernardini ran the other four. I guess that's enough evidence to say 'dini's faster.. Not to you, apparently, though.

Ofcourse Bernardini is faster, but that's not the point, you can't selectively point to that evidence as him being fast, but say well that was a faulty Beyer on Sin Min, isn't it possible that one or two of Bernardini's Beyers are faulty then. Didn't he earn one of those on a loose lead or easy trip? That's the thing with you Bernardini lovers, it's all or none, and if you don't lavish praise on him you are a hater, that's rediculous. Haven't I said that I believe he's the best horse in training? Haven't I said he's a potential great? I am sorry I have questions about him when he gets hooked. I am finished with this conversation, I really hope he wins the Classic, because I don't think some of you guys will be able to get on with your lives if he does not...

No doubt Bernardini looks like a great one, but let's not overstate it at this point. If he thrashes Lava Man, Invasor, and others by open lengths on 11/4, then we can start figuring where he fits in history. He still hasn't run an off the chart fast race, ala Formal Gold or Spectacular Bid, but he hasn't been asked either, so who knows.

People ... people ... people ...

... please don't fall into the amateurish trap of comparing performances by 4YOS to performances by 3YOS.

All these folks who use the great races of Spectacular Bid or Seattle Slew or Dr. Fager (or Formal Gold) as yardsticks for comparisons to Secretariat or Bernardini ... are falling into that silly trap.

None of those three great horses did anything extraordinary as 3YOS ... all of their mindblowing races came as 4YOS.

The 3YO Bernardini is every bit as good ... or much better ... than the 3YO Spectacular Bid, Seattle Slew, or Dr. Fager.

The 3YO Secretariat blew the wheels off any horse of any age. Only the evil doings of worldwide socialism prevented us from seeing even more sensational performances from him as a 4YO.

Please let's not hear such nonsense again.

I wasn't blown away by his effort like I was in the Travers. he had to get after him on the turn to catch the runnerup, and his final time was ordinary. I can't grasp the Beyer fig at all, think its ludicrous. Henny went 8 flat for 6f so the track was obviously ok in speed. 2:01 for a mile and a quarter which is only a turn and a half instead of two turns on a track where the track record is 1:58:1 is not that great.
I dunno, maybe he is beatable after all.

Now you've done it, you're going to send the planets out of line and have the Bernardini Bunch come crashing down on you...Heaven forbid, someone looks at the race for what it was....

OK, I just watched the race. He won easily and it wouldn't surprise me if he does win the Breeder's Cup. (not that I think he is going to win cause you all know who I am really rooting for).

Bernardini is a good very good horse. OK, so his time wasn't that great, but he really wasn't asked. But then I question: Has Bernardini ever really been asked? Has another horse every kept up with him stride for stride in the homestretch and has he had to battle to the wire with another horse? If he has, I haven't seen it. Until I do, I will not dub him "the next great". Not that he isn't a very good horse, because he is. Just not labeling him "GREAT" yet.

But when Drifty kicks his butt in the Classic, I will not dub him great... :D :D (Just being sarcastic, but here's to hoping.)

I tend to agree here. Much more impressed by Henny than Bernie. But Bernie is really really good, but we need to hold off on the super horse comparisons sometimes. We all want one so much that it doesn't surprise me that people jump the gun. He could be. Or he might not be....Discreet Cat may well be better.

Randy ...

In light of my admonition above ... you may want to change your signature line.

To say that Spectacular Bid was better than Secretariat is exactly the type of silly amateurism that I warned against. Compare the 3YO record of Spectacular Bid with the 3YO record of Secretariat ... and you'll realize how foolish you look.

Yes I'm so silly. Bad me. Bad, bad, bad.

[quote=Bold Brooklynite]People ... people ... people ...
Only the evil doings of worldwide socialism prevented us from seeing even more sensational performances from him as a 4YO.
QUOTE]

I doubt it....................

And please don't buy into that "twit's" BS.

Did you know that Lucien could make a rope come up out of the basket without a pipe?

BTW, a clocker picked up he battery Sunday morning right by the clocker's stand just before the clubhouse turn.

:mad:

BRIGHT ONE??????? He coudn't even beat a field of 3rd and 4th string runners! Bernardini could give him a 3 furlong head start and 15 pounds and blow him away!!!!

We'll see if they run against one another...

Muhaha I concur! Hell Jesus would lose to Bernardini in a 5 furlong sprint on the water!! And i'll make $30 on a $300 bet! Whoo!!

*pats self on the back*

LMFAO!!! :D

OMG, you guys are killing me today...

he hasn't won them all. apparently they didn't 'ask' him in his debut either!!

The biggest myth in racing is 3YOs can't beat older horses. They do it all the time and it will happen at CD when both Bernardini and Henny Hughes win.