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alysheba4 11-09-2006 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Apparently identifying sarcasm is NOT one of your strong suits.

.....right back at ya AL.

kentuckyrosesinmay 11-09-2006 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redransom
As a former racetrack groom, I'm here to tell you there's a giant difference between "wraps" and "bandages" and "rundowns" and where they all go and what they're all for.

Bandages in the true sense are what goes on a horse in his stall. Standing, sweats, poultices, spiders...

Wraps are usually used during training and are "polo" types, discussed above, or "tracers" which resemble ace bandages and are used for both protection and added support. Of course some also use tight vetwrap bandages on horses when training when the horse needs it; I was lucky to never have had one of them. I had a mare, who won a stakes at Ellis Park in 1997, who had some ankle issues and we used tracers on all fours for her and that was more than sufficient.

Oh and racing bandages are called "rundowns" when on hind legs and are, basically, vetwrap around the ankles and a rundown patch over the top (or back of the ankle, in this case.) I think this is what you were referring to when you mentioned preventing burns, which is called running down. For front bandages, which is what the "f" in the Form is for, it's the same thing, only wrapped tightly for support rather than prevention of running down, nine times out of 10. I've seen a horse or two actually run down in front, too. But it's rare...

Thanks for the correct terminology red ransom. That's good stuff.

kentuckyrosesinmay 11-09-2006 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26
I disagree, Jessica. I've been wrapping horses since I was 6 years old, so yeah, I know how to wrap as well and I haven't ever caused a bowed tendon either. It CAN happen, though and that is the primary reason that smart horsemen will not wrap their horses with POLO wraps while trailering (bandage bows.) As you know, there are different types of boots and leg protection gear to use while riding and while I personally use polo wraps during routine riding, I do so because of the protection they offer to the exterior of the horses leg (especially for horses who overreach, etc.) I use jumping boots, splint boots etc for actual support and my trainer will not "hook" polo wraps because there IS a risk in doing that, and when you've got eventers that are worth a quarter of a million buckaroos, you don't want to chance it. :D

Polo wraps got their name because they were originally popular among polo players. Their usefulness has long since expanded into most every other discipline. Polo wraps, usually made of cotton-blend fabric, offer wide-spectrum protection, depending on how they are used. People who use polo wraps like them because of their versatility, since different parts of the leg can be protected, depending on how they are applied. Using polo wraps, however, requires some experience, since a leg can be easily damaged by a wrap that has been applied improperly. They also require more maintenance than leg boots in order to maintain their usefulness and elasticity.

Well, I was talking about using wraps on racehorses, not on horses who are shipping.

And what is the risk for hooking polo wraps? Please tell me. I would love to know because I am baffled from that statement. Also, as redransom said, racehorse trainers do have their horses fetlock joints hooked. Some of those animals are worth millions and millions. Take Afleet Alex for example. Tim Ritchey used to be a three day eventer, and he had Alex's rundowns hooked behind the fetlock joint.

In your second paragraph, you forgot to talk about how polo wraps add SUPPORT. I could find numerous articles by famous horsemen agreeing with me on this. I have learned everything I know through experience.

I use bell boots for horses overreaching. If you are riding animals who overreach so badly that they hit their cannon bones or ankle joint, then they aren't very high dollar or quality animals because they can't move.

redransom 11-09-2006 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
Thanks for the correct terminology red ransom. That's good stuff.

I probably should have also said that many outfits, in fact, do use ace bandages for extra support, like Patrick Biancone for example. Real Aces, too, not the cheap generic ones. My best friend, Tom, groomed Lion Heart for a year (from when he came into the barn as a 2yo until after the Preakness) and used to roll Aces every night he crashed on my sofa looking for a night away from hovering over Lion Heart.

outofthebox 11-09-2006 07:54 PM

I dont know of any race track that allows horses running in races with polos, or did someone mention that already. Years ago in California we would use gelo casts under vet wrap or aces in the aide of more support. Well after a few trainers claimed these horses wearing the casts underneath the wraps, they complained to the racing board and it wasn't long before the rule of only vet wrap or similar designed products, and ace bandages were allowed for racing purposes..

Cajungator26 11-09-2006 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox
I dont know of any race track that allows horses running in races with polos, or did someone mention that already. Years ago in California we would use gelo casts under vet wrap or aces in the aide of more support. Well after a few trainers claimed these horses wearing the casts underneath the wraps, they complained to the racing board and it wasn't long before the rule of only vet wrap or similar designed products, and ace bandages were allowed for racing purposes..

Thanks for the info...

It was my mistake in assuming they were talking about polo wraps.

redransom 11-09-2006 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox
I dont know of any race track that allows horses running in races with polos, or did someone mention that already. Years ago in California we would use gelo casts under vet wrap or aces in the aide of more support. Well after a few trainers claimed these horses wearing the casts underneath the wraps, they complained to the racing board and it wasn't long before the rule of only vet wrap or similar designed products, and ace bandages were allowed for racing purposes..

Good catch on the gelo thing...

No polos for racing, that's still the same, but some still use gelos under vetwrap and aces (the latter for training only as I think vetwrap is the only approved bandage on raceday.) Truth be told, they don't check close enough before races to notice if a horse has a gelo under the vetwrap. Me personally, I've never worked for anyone who's used gelo under vetwrap, thank goodness, but lots of my pals have...

Pointg5 11-10-2006 07:05 AM

I don't care what they wrap him with, unless it's bubble wrap and they put away him until he is a 4yo...I would love to be wrong, because if he can get back to that number, he likely wins the Derby, but I think it's too much...

randallscott35 03-11-2007 04:59 PM

I'll Bump This So People Understand My Justification

ArlJim78 03-17-2007 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
Thorograph has their numbers posted for the entire card on Saturday. I encourage you to take a look at it.

One number jumped out. A Negative 2 by Street Sense in the juvenile even while being checked on the turn in the race.

I will go on record as saying this horse will not run a negative number in his entire 3 yr old year and very likely not again in his career. I am no fan of numbers like that this early. Mind you also that front wraps were added for this start as well. The ultimate squeeze the lemon scenario and I think he is finished. He is a bet against from here on out.

Well equalling a track record and winning right back after a long layoff I think is a fairly strong indication he's not finished yet. I don't know if that number will come back negative, but he certainly still looks capable of it.

It would take some kind of injury for him to not make it to the Derby starting gate and most likely he will be the morning line derby favorite.

mclem10011 03-17-2007 06:04 PM

Number.....
 
Should be strong, would not suprise me to see him ML fav, still a few preps to go though.

Coach Pants 03-17-2007 06:05 PM

Please take it easy on Randall. :D

ArlJim78 03-17-2007 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclem10011
Should be strong, would not suprise me to see him ML fav, still a few preps to go though.

Well Randall's bold prediction was that Street Sense was finished, a bet against, would not start in the derby, would not ever win another GR1, and would never run a negative number again.

Yes there is still aways to go but I don't know how he doesn't make it to the derby.

magic_idol 03-17-2007 06:49 PM

I take it street sense won ?:confused:

randallscott35 03-17-2007 06:50 PM

Would this be bumped had he lost by a nose? If he ran up the track? I highly doubt it.

I'll stick to my call. He ran better than I thought he would today but with that trip he should win. Mind you the worst he could've been in this field had he run a nothing Beyer was second b/c the group was dreadful aside from Any Given....But, Was this a Grade 1? Nope, was that a negative number. Not a chance. The best number Any Given had run was a 2. Street Sense maybe ran a 2 with that ground saving trip. Came back in fronts which he shouldn't be needing....Still don't think he'll make the Derby, nor run a negative his 3 yr old season, nor win a Grade 1 the rest of his career....Let's wait to throw dirt on me until he does. K.

paisjpq 03-17-2007 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magic_idol
I take it street sense won ?:confused:

yes he did...by a nose

magic_idol 03-17-2007 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq
yes he did...by a nose

Thank you:)

ArlJim78 03-17-2007 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
Would this be bumped had he lost by a nose? If he ran up the track? I highly doubt it.

You bumped it yourself the other day to help me to understand why he is finished.

randallscott35 03-17-2007 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78
You bumped it yourself the other day to help me to understand why he is finished.

I stand by it. He beat 1 horse today and ran better than I thought he would. That number as a two year old was the best ever for any juvenille winner. If he is the second coming of Secretariat he will show it.

And the sad thing is, I wasn't rooting against him in the least. Not at all. I think it would be great if a juvy winner could win the Derby....But if you follow Thoros and believe in them the call made sense. Nothing I saw today changes that.

ArlJim78 03-17-2007 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randallscott35
I stand by it. He beat 1 horse today and ran better than I thought he would. That number as a two year old was the best ever for any juvenille winner. If he is the second coming of Secretariat he will show it.

And the sad thing is, I wasn't rooting against him in the least. Not at all. I think it would be great if a juvy winner could win the Derby....But if you follow Thoros and believe in them the call made sense. Nothing I saw today changes that.

Whoa!!! I never said he was the second coming of Secretariat.
I never said he will win the derby.

My only point was and still is that your call was not a good one since it was based primarily on a number and ignored some of the other circumstances.

I use thoro numbers too, but I do not use them in a such a mechanical way, I'm not a Thoro-lemming. For example; If horse A runs a neg 2 at two years old then X,Y, and Z outcomes are a certainty.


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