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-   -   3/7 (AQU): Gotham S. (Gr. III); Toboggan H. (Gr. III) (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28208)

ateamstupid 03-07-2009 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
You all are missing my point. I'm not endorsing POTN at all. Not one bit. I too think he's a turf horse, but regardless, the fact he beat IWR who then came back to win today helps legitimate POTN's ability to a certain extent. What extent is that? Who knows. Time will tell.
Again, why does it legitimize POTN's ability? IWR looks to be two different horses on the two surfaces. POTN beat the synthetic IWR, not the dirt one. It's like elevating Red Rocks because Curlin won the Woodward after losing to him in the Man O' War.

Danzig 03-07-2009 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
Again, why does it legitimize POTN's ability? They're two different surfaces. POTN beat the synthetic IWR, not the dirt one.
exactly. also, varying distances can have an effect. one perhaps will like shorter, the other, longer. but i do think it's doubtful that a bunch of calis are going to all take to dirt. or that the horses they've been beating on syns might not be able to turn the tables later....or be able to catch their peers as they continue to mature.

Travis Stone 03-07-2009 07:26 PM
I have spent more time on this thread than it's worth. Time for a beer.

ateamstupid 03-07-2009 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
I have spent more time on this thread than it's worth. Time for a beer.
:rolleyes:

Travis Stone 03-07-2009 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
:rolleyes:
Damn, not the eye roll.

2Hot4TV 03-07-2009 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
i disagree that it legitimizes potn-just because i want revenge handled dirt that does not indicate POTN will do the same, or at the same level of ability that he has shown on synthetic. what are the odds that several west coasters will all be able to translate to the real thing?
The horses that are training and racing on synthetic tracks seem to have more bottom and if they get a hold of the dirt they have something left when the real racing starts at the 1/4 pole.

ateamstupid 03-07-2009 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
Damn, not the eye roll.
I asked you a question and you couldn't answer it, so now this thread isn't worth your time. I think that deserves some rolling eyes. But I digress.

Travis Stone 03-07-2009 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
what are the odds that several west coasters will all be able to translate to the real thing?
Fairly long. Quite long actually. But IWR is an example of how you just never know. If you say it's because IWR ran well at Hollywood, well so did POTN, so it's really a horse-by-horse basis. I let the synthetic trying dirt horse beat me. Luckily, I didn't bet the Gotham today because I would have lost. At his price, I was going to let IWR beat me all day long.

That said, I think the IWR camp did the right thing by finding out and running in the Gotham. Now they know they're legit on dirt, and can move forward accordingly.

Cannon Shell 03-07-2009 07:39 PM
Imperial Council while hampered by a slow pace, had a flawless rail trip, never had a straw in his path. His catching Mr Fantasy was more a reflection of Mr Fantasy's limitations than Imperial Councils strength. Haynesfield was terrible. This may have looked like a good field on paper but it sure doesnt look very goo outside the winner afterwards.

Cannon Shell 03-07-2009 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
The horses that are training and racing on synthetic tracks seem to have more bottom and if they get a hold of the dirt they have something left when the real racing starts at the 1/4 pole.
This is an empty theory especially since each synthetic surface is so different.

Travis Stone 03-07-2009 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
I asked you a question and you couldn't answer it, so now this thread isn't worth your time. I think that deserves some rolling eyes. But I digress.
I didn't even see your question, my bad.

Quote:
Again, why does it legitimize POTN's ability? IWR looks to be two different horses on the two surfaces. POTN beat the synthetic IWR, not the dirt one. It's like elevating Red Rocks because Curlin won the Woodward after losing to him in the Man O' War.
First off, I'm not elevating Red Rocks at all. He's not the same horse anymore.

And you're right, POTN beat the synthetic IWR. But the synthetic IWR was good enough to only lose to POTN by a... nose. Now we see the dirt IWR is pretty good, so if POTN were to handle dirt, then well based upon this comparative handicapping, it makes for another element of discussion. Which is all I was doing. Not proclaiming POTN as the Derby winner by any stretch. The wording in my original post was poor, and cause people to freak out with their keyboards a bit. My bad.

Cannon Shell 03-07-2009 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
I didn't even see your question, my bad.



First off, I'm not elevating Red Rocks at all. He's not the same horse anymore.

And you're right, POTN beat the synthetic IWR. But the synthetic IWR was good enough to only lose to POTN by a... nose. Now we see the dirt IWR is pretty good, so if POTN were to handle dirt, then well based upon this comparative handicapping, it makes for another element of discussion. Which is all I was doing. Not proclaiming POTN as the Derby winner by any stretch. The wording in my original post was poor, and cause people to freak out with their keyboards a bit. My bad.
Too much Quarter horse exposure

Travis Stone 03-07-2009 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
Too much Quarter horse exposure
There was a race today with five or six horses with the name "Dash" or "Cash" in their name. That'll make anyone nuts.

Danzig 03-07-2009 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV
The horses that are training and racing on synthetic tracks seem to have more bottom and if they get a hold of the dirt they have something left when the real racing starts at the 1/4 pole.
based on what?

ateamstupid 03-07-2009 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Stone
First off, I'm not elevating Red Rocks at all. He's not the same horse anymore.

And you're right, POTN beat the synthetic IWR. But the synthetic IWR was good enough to only lose to POTN by a... nose. Now we see the dirt IWR is pretty good, so if POTN were to handle dirt, then well based upon this comparative handicapping, it makes for another element of discussion. Which is all I was doing. Not proclaiming POTN as the Derby winner by any stretch. The wording in my original post was poor, and cause people to freak out with their keyboards a bit. My bad.
Nobody's freaking out, just trying to point out that simply because I Want Revenge lost by a nose to Pioneerof the Nile, then freaked on dirt, that has little to no correlation to Pioneerof the Nile's ability or what he would do on dirt if he 'handled it'. You're smart enough to understand the Red Rocks/Curlin comparison and that it has nothing to do with what Red Rocks is or isn't. You know the point I was trying to make.

Bobby Fischer 03-07-2009 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell
This may have looked like a good field on paper but it sure doesnt look very goo outside the winner afterwards.
Agreed, and while the winner ran a pretty good race, I don't see him as a triple crown horse, which is ultimately what these 3yo preps ask.

Pedigree Ann 03-07-2009 07:58 PM
Since when has the inner track at Aqueduct been comparable to a real dirt track? If you handicap that way, you'll lose a lot of $.

blackthroatedwind 03-07-2009 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann
Since when has the inner track at Aqueduct been comparable to a real dirt track? If you handicap that way, you'll lose a lot of $.

Are you playing " can you top this " for inane posts?

NTamm1215 03-07-2009 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann
Since when has the inner track at Aqueduct been comparable to a real dirt track? If you handicap that way, you'll lose a lot of $.
What are you talking about?

NT

Bobby Fischer 03-07-2009 08:23 PM
oooh oooh let me try the eye roll
 
If you watched today's races, consider their breeding , and look at their strides in the head-on, Nicanor actually looks like he has a better chance to run a decent 10furlongs in May than Imperial Council.

:rolleyes:

seriously


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