The ONE thing that I will agree with KYRM on in this thread is that you don't have to have been alive at the time to do this type of comparison.
I wasn't around to see Citation or Johnny Unitas compete, but I think I am still qualified to say that they were better than Cause to Believe and Rex Grossman respectively.

you beat me to it....

i thought it was gwathmy?

and then i read on and saw prudery beat me to that.


well, if a winner going longer is better than a winner at shorter, then steeplechasing should be considered the creme de la creme. go longer, carry more weight, and have to keep jumping all at the same time.

I see your point, but I would like to add a muddling thought to it---Personal Ensign was running on a track she disliked and still overcame it, so it might be thought that both horses were compromised and the result may have been the same had both had their optimum conditions satisfied and were both at their respective peaks ... I do give the edge to Winning Colors over Rags to Riches however, but I believe the BCD result would have remained unchanged .... IMO, the race flattered them both, and a tip of the hat to Goodbye Halo as aforementioned ...
It is also possible that Winning Colors grandfathered herself back to her glory days on that occassion, and Personal Ensign was tailing off ... I do not believe in any way a finish like that diminishes anything ...
As far as a perfectly healthy Winning Colors romping, do not see that either ... Personal Ensign was determined to stay perfect ... And she did ...

I see what you are saying here but that would mean that you have to believe that Winning Colors was only a shell of her former self after the Preakness. I don't believe that to be anywhere close to true. For the Belmont, she obviously was worn out but after getting some time off, she came back better than ever and I think her races in the Maskette and BC Distaff were as good as her efforts in the spring.

Prudery makes the point that the track conditions in the BC were not to Personal Ensign's liking and that may have comprimised her some. I don't know if that's true or not. PE ran a winning race in the Whitney on a sloppy track when she beat Gulch and there is no way to actually know how much a horse likes or dislikes a track.

My opinion is not that PE defeated a lesser version of WC but a better one. And as impressive as the BC win was, I was even more impressed by the Maskette win because it came at a shorter distance that should have been even more advantageous to WC.

I believe Randy Romero said she did not handle the track at all for the BCD---although that may have been jockeyspeak, but I do think she rallied later and more laboringly than she usually did ... Do not recall if the Whitney was a fast or a slow sloppy track---as you know all slop is not equal ... Forego was not a mudder horse --and was scratched for mud, but was successful on a muddy track that he got traction on ... Sloppy, muddy, fast wet, slow wet---minutae--but it can make a difference ...
Agree about the Maskette ...

As of today, Winning Colors is MUCH more accomplished of a race horse. R2R needs to show me more before I can put her up there with the likes of WC.

For a second there, I thought you were going to say that Citation would have kicked Johnny Unitas's butt.

--Dunbar

Yep, exactly!

--Dunbar

It wasn't a wrong observation.

I just spit my drink out. Lost in the Fog...overrated? You have got to be kidding me...

This statement really doesn't even warrant a response, so I won't even try. It won't do any good anyway.

I do not pretend to know everything. I do not know everything. No one does. It is horse racing.

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point even more.

You are overestimating her.

Which was what?

Name a 3 year old from last year that you think was 100% sound.

she'll get back to you as soon as she goes through her extensive video collection....and confirms with the elusive experts.

That emotion was the reason he was a great toss out as a huge underlay in the BC Sprint.

<snerk>


edit



and then there's the translation into laymens terms, else it would go over our heads...

I already know I'm not bright enough to understand....I've stopped trying.

She's well on her way to a lucrative track management position.