ap indy is #6 on the top synthetic sires list, so he's not a throw out. pulpit on the other hand....

by the same token, pulpit is #6 for turfers, ap indy nowhere to be found. but many think that turf = poly and vice versa, so who knows?

i don't think pyro is an automatic toss, but i wouldn't bet him either-not at the odds he'll be.

I dont understand half of what you guys talk about on here lol but Im learning as I go. Alot of helpful info though so thank you guys. Goodluck to all today. With that said I havnt heard much talk about Visionaire. Does he stand a shot to hit the board with the 12 posts he drew?

Everyone but Stone Bird stands a shot to hit the board here.

Stone Bird = Belmont winner. :D

All kidding aside, probably not ... but it would be ironic.

Because its on the rubber,
I think Sniper is right.

But I think people might be wishing a bit
too much also. Bettors and Owners.
The main reason we got 13 horses going
against Pyro is the rubber (and that there
is a possible intention to use this as a training
session before the real event). If this were a dirt
event and Pyro needed the money to get in,
the field would be much shorter of course.
A few would be thrown in because its the last
chance for some of these to get enough earnings.

There would be no other horses I like enough
to go against the best horse in this race. I wish I
had strong feelings about one other as a winner but
I personally do not. Its neat to read the views of others.

THat's on money won, correct? And how much of that was from AP Excellent? Since I started tracking, of 34 AP Indy runners making their first start on synthetic, only 3 won and that returned about $28. That's well below $1.00 returned for every $2 wagered.

On that track, wide seems to be the place to be. I thought Gomez made a big mistake in the 3rd trying to dive down toward the inside.

If you check out some other sites you
will see others do like this horse. I suspect
he will be the 3rd choice by the public and would
probably be the 2nd choice with a diff. post. It
may be advantageous is some ways, but I would prefer
a little closer in.

Didn't an AP Indy just win the Ashland?

We don't understand two-thirds of it ourselves so you are ahead of the game.
As for Visionaire, he doesn't seem like a great play to me. He is a decent horse, and the race is wide open, but I think he'll be slightly overbet and might be the type of runner that gets caught wide all the way around in this race.
I'm proabably out of my mind, but I kind of like Monba and Miner's Claim to be factors here, and am using them on a variety of tickets with Cool Coal Man and Big Truck. I'm banking on the fact that Pyro's slow works over this course means he doesn't like the surface and I am leaving him off entirely.

wow pyro sux on polytrack

Gotta love the tires!

Great news for Pyro fans, an off the board finish

I boxed Monba and Pyro;kicking myself now

I bet Union Ave. in the finale

I'm a FU<KING MORON. I played those four with Big Fu<king Truck instead of Kentucky Bear.

Saved my bad wager on Big Truck. Whew.

no, ap indys top synthetic horse is adriano--one who's probably heading to ky based on his form on anything BUT dirt.
bertrando is one showing good poly #'s, for anyone who is interested.

I have no idea why people bet Pyro so heavily. As I said before the race (and as anybody with a functioning set of eyes could see) his works there were horrible, and there was really no reason to think he would like this surface.
Sometimes it shocks me how many people still think form from one surface has any significance whatsoever on the other.

I still would have liked to have seen SOMETHING from him today.

I guess if you mean just people who plan to bet on the horse in his next start when he returns to dirt, then yeah....it is good news.
If you really meant people that are actually fans of the horse however, I hardly see how watching your horse demonstrate that he sucks on polytrack could be a good thing.
I mean....they do still run races after the Kentucky Derby right?

Yeah, I'd probably steer Pyro away from synthetic tracks in the future if I were in charge, there's still a few natural dirt tracks in the US

totally agree, he did not run 1 step today, so basicely he's going into the derby off of a layoff of....almost 8 weeks, this race is a total total throw out, so now he in my mind has not raced since march 8th, where in my opinion he beat a weak group then, in a slow time.

i pray they bet this horse hard, i think he could run last.

Unless he gets hurt or something else REALLY strange happens during the race, there is absolutely no way that horse finishes last going 10f on the dirt against some of the ones that are sure to be entered in the race.

i would caution against completely tossing pyro in may.

war pass ran a remarkably bad race in the tampa bay derby, and came back to run a pretty strong race in the wood.

pyro has had nothing going wrong on dirt.

It was terrible, but it was a surface he clearly hated. Would anyone be excited about backing Kip Deville or English Channel if they threw him out against Curlin and co on dirt? It's a rare animal indeed that can perfom at the top levels on all surfaces, but a bad performance on one not preferred can be excused. Now the question with Pyro is whether something is wrong, whether he isn't good, or whether he needs to get back on dirt to run his race. That's why they call it gambling and now you'll get some odds to help backing Pyro if you like him.

No there isn't more to it. It's fairly simple to figure out.

Pyro is a dead closer. He didn't take to the track. He finished where dead closers finish on a surface they don't fancy.

so, if curlin makes it to the bc classic and gets his bright red butt handed to him, how many will blame the switch to poly? i'd bet plenty.

poly is NOT dirt. i think the analogy above about putting kip deville vs curlin is right on. people have got to come to the realization that there are now three surfaces in this sport. not, turf and then dirt/poly. dirt and poly are not the same in any way. some can make the move, just like some can run on dirt and turf. but it's not a given.
you look at any pyro race before yesterday, what do you see? look at the poly sires list, who is missing?

i agree. i mean, monba won. does anyone really think the bluegrass tells us anything about what will happen in three weeks??

I dont think you will have to worry about the "Bounce factor" when Pyro runs next.

LOL at his bright red butt ... :D

derby dozen
 

if all the big names are off the board, what does that say? i vote for tossing this race. and i am officially on the visionaire bandwagon! at least for the next 20 minutes...

The Bluegrass will not tell us anything. Last year with Street Sense told us the same thing.

Street Sense at least put forth an effort on the stuff ...

Street Cry's are also doing far better on the synthetics than Pulpit's.

True, but Pyro and a few others had nothing to gain by running hard in this race. It was, what amounts to be a public workout for Pyro. Like someone mentioned in another thread, Asmussen not showing up was a good indicator he knew the horse wasn't going to be close to the winners circle.

I just watched the replay again, it looked like Kentucky Bear was running on the wrong lead at the end. He was running very hard and was drifting in. With nobody inside of him, I'm surprised the jock didn't switch him and let him go inside the top 2 finishers. If anyone has a second, check it out and let me know if that was a possibility or if, as usual I'm just seeing this wrong. Thanks!